When did this become acceptable?

[sqlbullet]

Help doesn't mean mental illness.  Could be a poor assistant manager going to clear the store after an alarm and he needs help with the task.

[Keiichi]

I guess I misunderstood when he specifically referred to appropriately attributing mental illness in the nude man analogy for open carry - which I still don't agree is a valid analogy... outside, I suppose, being helpful rather than suspicious more broadly, which is not the way Muskrat originally used it.

Fair enough, but I stand by my statement with that clarification.

[Muskrat]

Well...I think my nudity analogy has been misconstrued...I probably phased it inelegantly.

But I think lines in the sand are being drawn, and there probably isn't much productive reason to continue. I've reached the same point with people who don't think there should be any guns in society...intelligent and articulate people who's opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. We heard each-other out, and agreed to disagree.

Our democracy is made up of people who think all guns should be destroyed and people who think weapons create some sort of utopia and they should be able to open cary assault rifles while grocery shopping...and people like me who think that the balance is somewhere in-between, but absolutely NOT at either extreme.

I'm as comfortable and skilled with firearms as any person I've ever met. I had a distinguished career as a sheriff's deputy in a meth-infested county where it was almost unheard of not to have someone at gunpoint two or three times a week. I went to work every day with three handguns, two shotguns and either a AR-15 or full-auto M-16, depending on the chores that day...I'm not intimidated by weaponry. And I think that in an urban setting the open cary of handguns is ridiculous, and open cary of assault rifles is just vulgar. I do not want to live in a society where either are considered normal, and I have no intention of moving.

There was a time in my life when I was more sympathetic with OC, but that was a LONG time ago and I've matured since then. If I had to choose between OC and going unarmed while in town today, I'd go unarmed...and that's from someone who's carried a gun virtually every day, while mowing the lawn and eating dinner and on vacation and at the dentist office and while getting my tires rotated etc., for just shy of three decades.

I also recognize that in our democracy, majority opinions cary the day. The US Constitution is a document which is subject to frequent interpretation and infrequent but precedented rewriting. Someone said earlier that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I like that. I wish more people were considerate enough to take it to heart.

Regardless, I don't think anyone has ever had their mind changed on such an emotional subject by internet posts, and the fact that everyone here has at least been willing to listen without overt nastiness is heartening.

[Keiichi]

Regardless, I don't think anyone has ever had their mind changed on such an emotional subject by internet posts, and the fact that everyone here has at least been willing to listen without overt nastiness is heartening.

I wholeheartedly agree. Thanks much everyone for making this such a great place to frequent.

Muskrat, I suspect we'd probably enjoy chatting in person given the opportunity. Have a good weekend.

[Muskrat]

Yes Keiichi, I suspect we probably would enjoy that. You have a good weekend, too.

[Kenk]

That's one of the things I really like about this forum, the majority of us are all very civil Minded

Ken

[Sneed]

Regardless, I don't think anyone has ever had their mind changed on such an emotional subject by internet posts, and the fact that everyone here has at least been willing to listen without overt nastiness is heartening.

It seems to me that one aspect of the issue of OC vs CC is the purpose of carrying to begin with. (I am leaving out those whose goal is to draw attention to themselves. They're not serious and I've seen no one of that sort posting here.) For the others there are those who wish to OC in order to make a philosophical point and to attempt to normalize OC. I disagree with those but acknowledge it is a legitimate view with a serious goal. But while that is true it appears that doing so interferes with the goal of carrying in order to protect oneself and innocent bystanders when someone appears with evil intent, which is why I carry. Let's imagine you are in a small to medium size store or other location when the bad guy appears. You have an AR slung over your back and stick out rather noticeably. Who do you think will be the initial target? Yeah, that's what I think as well and what good is your gun when you're dead on the floor? Compare that to concealed carry. Who will then be the initial target?

Granted in a large store, Walmart, Kroger, etc, you might be far away from the door when the shooter appears so you're not the initial target but that's a matter of luck. All in all it seems if protection is your goal then CC is the way to go.

[Kenk]

Excellent point, Thanks Sneed

[Muskrat]

https://apnews.com/article/homicide-shootings-police-jacob-blake-trials-0b0bbd2701e282361495bf815755e080

What could go wrong? A seventeen-year-old kid who isn't smart enough to know which way his hat is supposed to face attends a protest armed with an assault rifle...

Two people are dead and everyone who loved them or depended on them or even just knew them are suffering. A third person is injured by gunfire, and anyone who's suffered serious injury knows that the pain and consequences of a serious injury never go away.

Rittenhouse (the shooter) is facing life without parole, and even if that doesn't stick he'll likely spend decades in prison and certainly be dogged by his actions for the rest of his life. Instead of going to his high school prom he'll get repeatedly sodomized in the corner of the exercise yard that the cameras don't record. I'd bet my life that Rittenhouse wishes he'd never even seen a gun, much less owned one.

In six or ten years when the civil suits are finally concluded, Rittenhouse's parents literally won't have two nickels to rub together. No house, no savings, no pension...hell, even their social security will be taken in compensation for what their son did. Their thanksgiving dinner will be dictated by what's available at the local food closet until the day they die.

And for what??? The expression of Second Amendment rights? Ask Rittenhouse and his family how they feel about the expression of 2-A rights today...

Rittenhouse was a stupid kid participating in a stupid act, that for some insane reason wasn't illegal, but should have been. Had it not been legal for that (or any other) jackass to cary a loaded AR-15 in public none of this would have happened. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

[Kenk]

Absolutely a huge price to pay, and for what gain, little that I can see either

[Rick R]

You're still clutching your pearls over this?
Rittenhouse went to a RIOT and helped thwart an arson that dead pedo smurf was participating in.  That is what got him assaulted by dead pedo and it was a good thing he was armed. The mob then set out to end him and he again defended himself.

None of the dead/injured were a loss to society.  The only reason they were still alive was because it was illegal to shoot them years ago.

Rittenhouse wasn't there because of some 2A event but he's still alive because of his 2A rights.  He shouldn't have been in that position but the RIOTERS and ARSONIST shouldn't have been there either.

FWIW I saw a photo of his parents at some political event with Michelle Malkin and they appear to be holding up well.  I bet when all is said and done Kyle does no prison time.

"Assault Rifles!" , "Open Carry of LOADED handguns". Lordy next thing you'll have the vapors because normal "civilians" are carrying hollowpoints.

[Mike D]

Regardless, I don't think anyone has ever had their mind changed on such an emotional subject by internet posts, and the fact that everyone here has at least been willing to listen without overt nastiness is heartening.

It seems to me that one aspect of the issue of OC vs CC is the purpose of carrying to begin with. (I am leaving out those whose goal is to draw attention to themselves. They're not serious and I've seen no one of that sort posting here.) For the others there are those who wish to OC in order to make a philosophical point and to attempt to normalize OC. I disagree with those but acknowledge it is a legitimate view with a serious goal. But while that is true it appears that doing so interferes with the goal of carrying in order to protect oneself and innocent bystanders when someone appears with evil intent, which is why I carry. Let's imagine you are in a small to medium size store or other location when the bad guy appears. You have an AR slung over your back and stick out rather noticeably. Who do you think will be the initial target? Yeah, that's what I think as well and what good is your gun when you're dead on the floor? Compare that to concealed carry. Who will then be the initial target?

Granted in a large store, Walmart, Kroger, etc, you might be far away from the door when the shooter appears so you're not the initial target but that's a matter of luck. All in all it seems if protection is your goal then CC is the way to go.

Excellent point, Thanks Sneed

The first target discussion always and I mean always comes up in OC vs CC conversations and there is no basis in fact for the first target issue. If there was you can bet it would be on every media outlet every time and OC states would be reducing in number instead of increasing as they currently are.

Criminals are opportunists that prefer little to no resistance.

Regardless of your personal feelings about OC, all of us should support gaining some of our taken freedoms back, not disparaging one another. If you don't want to OC then don't. It's really that simple. But don't disparage and try to restrict those of us that do.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mike D]

https://apnews.com/article/homicide-shootings-police-jacob-blake-trials-0b0bbd2701e282361495bf815755e080

What could go wrong? A seventeen-year-old kid who isn't smart enough to know which way his hat is supposed to face attends a protest armed with an assault rifle...

Two people are dead and everyone who loved them or depended on them or even just knew them are suffering. A third person is injured by gunfire, and anyone who's suffered serious injury knows that the pain and consequences of a serious injury never go away.

Rittenhouse (the shooter) is facing life without parole, and even if that doesn't stick he'll likely spend decades in prison and certainly be dogged by his actions for the rest of his life. Instead of going to his high school prom he'll get repeatedly sodomized in the corner of the exercise yard that the cameras don't record. I'd bet my life that Rittenhouse wishes he'd never even seen a gun, much less owned one.

In six or ten years when the civil suits are finally concluded, Rittenhouse's parents literally won't have two nickels to rub together. No house, no savings, no pension...hell, even their social security will be taken in compensation for what their son did. Their thanksgiving dinner will be dictated by what's available at the local food closet until the day they die.

And for what??? The expression of Second Amendment rights? Ask Rittenhouse and his family how they feel about the expression of 2-A rights today...

Rittenhouse was a stupid kid participating in a stupid act, that for some insane reason wasn't illegal, but should have been. Had it not been legal for that (or any other) jackass to cary a loaded AR-15 in public none of this would have happened. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you haven't deeply studied the facts of what happened in this case?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jthoresen]

Probably the best facts video on the Kyle Rittenhouse situation


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFE&bpctr=1601160308

[pacapcop]

In Pennsylvania, we have 2nd Ammendment Rally's outside the State Capitol multiple times a year. Never felt safer. Long guns,open carry.They want in,check em in.It's a message. My right , decided by very intelligent men who seen the big picture long ago. And it's are State Constitution. But President Harris will see to that. {sarc}