Yes 10mm is more powerful than .40

[Muskrat]

I would like to see reports from real shootings in the field. This will tell if one round is advantageous over the other or not.

But I have to admit, the extra disruption to the hard cast bullet caused by the higher 10mm velocity bothers me.

I don't know...field reports are spectacularly random and entirely anecdotal. I once shot a mule deer in the head with a 30-06 loaded with 180 grain CoreLokd bullets from about fifty feet, and the bullet didn't penetrate the skull...just zipped along the bone under the skin, though the entry and exit points were in a straight line through the skull...it wasn't a glancing blow. You couldn't duplicate that in ten-thousand tries, but my field report would be that a 30-06 CoreLokt wont penetrate a deers skull from fifty feet. While it did happen, it's useless information.

[4949shooter]

I would like to see reports from real shootings in the field. This will tell if one round is advantageous over the other or not.

But I have to admit, the extra disruption to the hard cast bullet caused by the higher 10mm velocity bothers me.

I don't know...field reports are spectacularly random and entirely anecdotal. I once shot a mule deer in the head with a 30-06 loaded with 180 grain CoreLokd bullets from about fifty feet, and the bullet didn't penetrate the skull...just zipped along the bone under the skin, though the entry and exit points were in a straight line through the skull...it wasn't a glancing blow. You couldn't duplicate that in ten-thousand tries, but my field report would be that a 30-06 CoreLokt wont penetrate a deers skull from fifty feet. While it did happen, it's useless information.

Which is why we don't use anecdotal evidence. We need a suffucient amount of data to present the proper picture.

[Muskrat]

So how many field reports do you need before they're not anecdotal? I trust standardized, reproducible experiments infinitely more than field reports...dinner plates need not be included.

[4949shooter]

10, 20, 30..... The more the better.

The one example we have of a Buffalo Bore 9 mm stopping a brown bear is anecdotal. As we both know, ten more shootings of Brown bears with 9mm pistols won't show the same result.

[sqlbullet]

While I am not one to say that muzzle energy kills, I do trust physics.

More muzzle energy means more ability to do damage.  Whether or not that occurs is a function of bullet design.  The 9mm is being touted right now because two decades of focus have been placed on optimizing bullet design to it's performance envelope.  If that same effort were placed in 10mm, or 45 ACP, or 7.62 nagant, you would see benefits there as well.

The 45 ACP, and it's 45 Long Colt predecessor, had well earned reputations as solid defensive round because they had enough frontal area to make use of 400 lb-ft of energy regardless of bullet design.  A good design like a SWC or flying ashtray enhanced that.

The liability, IMHO, of the 10mm is it's power.  It requires and experienced and regularly practiced shooter to make consistent, fast hits with full power ammo.

As far as how many samples, I just asked my daughter her thoughts.  She has a BS in Stats, and her response for a large pool of events was 150.  More is better but she was confident you could have a normal sample with 150 random examples.

[Muskrat]

150 credible reports from people using a $2.20 boutique 10mm round in the field...that'll take a little time . It's a moot point to me, as I refuse to buy anything from a convicted wildlife poisoner (Tim Sundles), and I've yet to see any need for a monolithic copper bullet, unless lead bullets are not legal in a particular area. Now if someone was offering a depleted uranium bullet...that would be interesting  .

[Kenk]

Lol 😀

[4949shooter]

150 reports would be great, but I agree we aren't going to get there anytime soon. Though I would like to see more shootings as 10mm and Underwood ammo and other boutique ammo manufacturers' products become more widely used. 10 or 20 shootings as mentioned would help. One shooting from a 9mm HC round is not enough. Expense is a consideration, as well as other factors, including case room for powder I agree.

What will I choose to carry in the end. I don't know. Right now I have Extreme Defender and coated hardcast both from Underwood. Both ammunition types have been tested in my carry guns (Glock 20 and 40). I am at the moment comfortable with either choice.

Great job on the discussion. 

[Roguer]

I got a 40 S&W conversion barrel for practice with more "available" 40 ammo. But seems I find more 10mm now a days than 10mm.

[4949shooter]

I got a 40 S&W conversion barrel for practice with more "available" 40 ammo. But seems I find more 10mm now a days than 10mm.

And I am finding avaliable 10mm cheaper or as cheap as .40 right now. Crazy but for these prices I would rather shoot 10.

[Kenk]

Absolutely 😀

[cwlongshot]

I got a 40 S&W conversion barrel for practice with more "available" 40 ammo. But seems I find more 10mm now a days than 10mm.

. I cant think of a much better reason to start reloading and maybe even casting your own ammo/bullets! 

NEVER a concern for me on ammo costs. Costs me about the same to shoot ANY HANDGUN ammo.  Cause I load and cast.  Primers dont know if they go in a 9mm or 32 acp or 40 S&W!  Same for powders.... Red dot burns same in 2g in 32 as does 6g in the 40...  Not being a SA here. Its all about becoming more self reliant.

CW

CW

[Muskrat]

I agree on the reloading, though I don't cast. For the price of a conversion barrel and a thousand rounds of ammo, a person could be completely set up for reloading, cranking out rounds for the price of the primer, powder, and lead. A 10mm range round costs me about fifteen cents, and with some trial and error I've got a list of recipes that are much more accurate than anything I can buy off the shelf.

I can reproduce $1.25 boutique loads for less that fifty-cents, and with minimal trial and error I've developed rifle loads that are vasty more accurate than anything I can buy off the shelf, and less than one-third the price.

For the life of me I can't figure out why I didn't start reloading twenty years before I did. I guess I was intimidated by the complexity, not realizing that it's actually quite simple. I was afraid of making a mistake and blowing up my gun, not realizing that if you follow one of the many published recipes and are attentive to what you're doing, that just isn't going to happen. Then I thought I needed a progressive press and I didn't want to make that investment... I didn't realize that while progressive presses are nice, they're far from necessary, even if you reload a thousand rounds a month.

As a reloader I shoot five times more than I did before reloading, and that includes the years when the sheriff paid for the ammo. Just this afternoon I took my shot timer and my Glock 35 out back and practiced my "quick draw" for steel challenge. It was a short session...less than an hour...but I shot 240 rounds. A good afternoon plinking session that combines disciplined practice with some fun-gunning can be 700 rounds to start with, and possibly double that if it's both a pistol and carbine session. Recovering brass is made easier by laying out a tarp and staking it down against the wind. It only takes a minute, and it catches most of the brass.

Any serious shooter who isn't reloading is either spending a lot more on shooting than they need to, or shooting a lot less than they could be.

That said, I enjoy reloading...even the monotonous cranking out the thousands and thousands of rounds of USPSA loads that make up a summer's shooting schedule. Someone who didn't enjoy the process and wasn't trying to maximize accuracy would not be well served by reloading, as you can probably make more money mowing lawns than you can save by reloading, hour to hour.

[Kenk]

Plus, at least for me, reloading is therapeutic, my wife knits, and I make bullets, Lol, stinken old people 😀

[blaster]

other than all the afore mentioned benefits of reloading, I just enjoy doing it. at times when I can't get out and go shooting, I can get my "gun fix" by loading ammo.