Yes 10mm is more powerful than .40

[AlaskanBallistics]

https://youtu.be/SpYqz7EVZ-0

[Kenk]

a true fact 😀

[cwlongshot]

Hahaha. Whoda thunk it?? 

CW

[tunnug]

I read that the 40 Short&Weak was made by cutting down the 10mm for those that couldn't handle the recoil, I shoot both.

[Muskrat]

I read that the 40 Short&Weak was made by cutting down the 10mm for those that couldn't handle the recoil, I shoot both.

More accurate to say that the FBI recognized that they could get the same terminal performance on bipeds by downloading the 10mm 180 grain hollow point from 1300 fps to 950 fps, while simultaneously reducing recoil and allowing much faster follow-on shots. Smith and Wesson realized there was no need for the long 10mm case and associated large pistol frame with the load the FBI required, so they shortened the case and named it the .40 S&W.

People love to say that they "couldn't handle the recoil", but that's inaccurate. The reality is they recognized that the superior ballistics didn't compensate for the slow rate of accurate fire the recoil mandated, thus full-house 10mm loads were less lethal in a gunfight than reduced 10mm loads or .40S&W loads.

[sqlbullet]

Actually, neither of those aligns with the facts.

The 10mm was included in the FBI tests because one of the techs happened to have a Delta Elite.  And the downloaded ammo was used because said tech was hearing that full power Norma 10mm ammo was cracking Delta Elite frames.  So he handloaded the ammo he was willing to shoot in his gun.  That ammo happened to spec in with a 180 grain JHP moving 950 fps.  That load passed the tests with flying colors

S&W and Winchester at the same time were already developing a 40 caliber cartridge.  S&W had been working on this idea for nearly a decade.  The fact the specs lined up with the FBI 10mm load was serendipity.

Reports of agents not liking the recoil of the big 10 were grossly exaggerated.  All the more so when you consider they moved from 1076's loaded with FBI spec 10mm ammo to Glock 23's loaded with FBI spec 40 S&W ammo loaded to the same ballistics spec.  Last I checked physics, same momentum in a lighter gun equals more free recoil, not less.

Agents didn't like the 1076 for two reasons.  First, it was a big, heavy gun to carry around compared to previous options and the new tupperware options.  Second, due to the FBI mandated changes to the 3rd Gen Smith fire control group, the guns were known to end up out of time in a way that would lock the gun up until a gunsmith could take it apart.  If they had been issued Glock 29's (not available until 1997) chances are they would have had few complaints.

[Keiichi]

Just goes to show how much a disservice those 7 paragraph summaries on the "history" of 10mm we see in magazines and online really do.

Good video though. Thanks for your efforts AB.

[4949shooter]

Actually, full power 10mm ammo never had made issue to FBI agents. Sqlbullet is correct in that a personally owned Delta Elite was used to test the Norma loads. The FBI Marksmanship Training Unit determined that the full power loads would be too much for the average FBI agent to handle. Thus the load was watered down and then issued to agents. This ammunition is featured in our "10mm Pull Down" section. From there you know the history of the .40 S&W.

This is as according to my law enforcement contacts who were in contact with FBI MTU agents during the time.

[cwlongshot]

SO MUCH misinformation its astounding the "truth" can even be found. The 40 hate rund deep and wide.

Its a caliber "better" then some not as "good" as others. But 100% depends upon the scale you use.

I like the caliber allot. But I shoot allot. It gave me ballistics my 45 claimed in a much smaller
Lighter gun all with more capacity. Whats not to love there!    I owned one since about 6 mo after the first gen Glock 23. Started carrying a 23 when the had the mid gen 2 upgrade. Still have that 23. Sold off the first gen1 but found another some years back and grabbed it. Then bought a gen4 23 too. I still Like My gen2.5 The most in a 23. But my G35 Gen4 is my all time fav Glock. (Next to my Stock G29) Its been heavily modded. But will never be carried its my comp pistol.

I have bought four diff makers bbls and shot all the gens factory bbls tested all this unsupported chamber nonsense more (as much as) anyone should have too. Frankly I see many more 10mm's "smilin" brass then all 40's combined!!  But thats cause the top loads where being searched for.

People love to hate on things and love to be in the majority. (How Many sports fans jump on board with a winning team just before playoffs )  .

It was a good video! I commented to the neg 40 comment and understand one "blew up" on Chuck. (Sorry man) But the bad glock barrels where fixed decades ago...  With all the brand new shooters about today we dont need be poisoning there minds with our prejudices. ESP if unfounded today.

CW

Edit

[Kenk]

Great write up, Thanks CW!

[4949shooter]

On another note, this video makes me think that we might be better off carrying a solid copper round like the Buffalo Bore Mono Metal Dangerous Game load. Less deformation and more penetration may be the name of the game (no pun intended).

Edit: This one you tested went through the dinner plate and five water jugs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdBl4HFRsE

[Muskrat]

On another note, this video makes me think that we might be better off carrying a solid copper round like the Buffalo Bore Mono Metal Dangerous Game load. Less deformation and more penetration may be the name of the game (no pun intended).

Edit: This one you tested went through the dinner plate and five water jugs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdBl4HFRsE

I don't believe that the solid copper bullets provide any advantage over hard cast lead at 10mm velocities. If anything they provide both less mass and less room for powder. I've got Rim Rock hard cast bullets that I split out of hard, dry Douglas Fir logs, and aside from the rifling marks you could reload them and shoot 'em again. Nothing living is nearly as hard as a ceramic plate...people talk about how hard bone is, but it really isn't very hard at all. Dense and slippery...yes, but not hard. Meat cutters run bones through bandsaws day in and day out...think about running a dinner plate through a butchers' bandsaw. That ain't going to work.

The ceramic plate is a good way to save on water jugs, but it doesn't accurately represent anything you'd find in nature.

[4949shooter]

On another note, this video makes me think that we might be better off carrying a solid copper round like the Buffalo Bore Mono Metal Dangerous Game load. Less deformation and more penetration may be the name of the game (no pun intended).

Edit: This one you tested went through the dinner plate and five water jugs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdBl4HFRsE

I don't believe that the solid copper bullets provide any advantage over hard cast lead at 10mm velocities. If anything they provide both less mass and less room for powder. I've got Rim Rock hard cast bullets that I split out of hard, dry Douglas Fir logs, and aside from the rifling marks you could reload them and shoot 'em again. Nothing living is nearly as hard as a ceramic plate...people talk about how hard bone is, but it really isn't very hard at all. Dense and slippery...yes, but not hard. Meat cutters run bones through bandsaws day in and day out...think about running a dinner plate through a butchers' bandsaw. That ain't going to work.

The ceramic plate is a good way to save on water jugs, but it doesn't accurately represent anything you'd find in nature.

The solid only penetrated one more jug than the hard cast. Not a huge difference by any means.

Personally I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[Muskrat]

Either are probably fine, though it's a good idea to shoot a few hundred cary rounds per year to ensure reliability, and the solid copper rounds do cost a bit more...for no advantage that I can see.

[4949shooter]

I would like to see reports from real shootings in the field. This will tell if one round is advantageous over the other or not.

But I have to admit, the extra disruption to the hard cast bullet caused by the higher 10mm velocity bothers me.