180gr Hardcast with Accurate #7: impressive results in a Kriss Vector

[doeman]

Hi Folks, first post!

I had some impressive results last weekend with my Kriss Vector 16" Carbine.  This is a gun that tends to 'smile' anything approaching a moderate to hot load so I've been testing the hotter end of the spectrum with hardcast bullets.

180gr HSM RN FP hardcast bullets
11.7gr Accurate #7
CCI 300 primers
1.246 OAL
New Starline brass

Four shots over the chrono: 1552, 1555, 1562, and 1557 fps.  I was happy with the consistency, and only one of the pieces of brass had a slight crease.  This seems like a load that could be pushed up to 1600fps in the Vector (albeit with brass I'd need to toss), and I might see about that.  Part of me likes the idea of having a low recoil 10mm carbine for walking up on a moose carcass the night after a successful hunt rather than my usual Ruger Toklat.  Bear concerns, and all.

Just out of curiosity, I did fire one round through a completely stock gen 4 Glock 20: 1132 fps.  This load really seems to take advantage of the Vector's long barrel length.

[The_Shadow]

Welcome to the forum doeman!  Some interesting results from that KRISS Vector with that longer barrel for sure.
Did you inspect the bore for any leading issue?  Not sure what lube HSM uses on their bullets.

Best regards! 

[sqlbullet]

Welcome to the forum.

These results are a bit perplexing to me.  11.7 grains is well over max for #7, and should produce around 1300+ fps from your Glock.  It also should be smiling brass broadly in a gun that has less than great chamber support.  But your velocity is lower than the published data for a max load, and you have no pressure indications.

These velocity numbers and pressure indicators are spot on for what I would expect #9 to produce with an 11.7 grain charge.  Makes me wonder if there wasn't a mistake at the factory and some #9 got in a #7 bottle.

I would definitely work that load back up when you switch to a new lot of #7.

[doeman]

No leading whatsoever with the HSM bullet!  They do have one lube groove, but no fancy coating or anything like that.  I must say I've been impressed with them so far from a cost and performance standpoint: ~27$ for a box of 250.  They shoot well under a 7.0gr load of Unique as well, albeit with less speed, averaging 1320 fps with mixed brass.

My load manuals have been all over the board with Accurate #7.  Lyman 48 gives a max of 11.5gr under a 180 HP, Hornady's 10th Edition lists 12gr., and Western's has 10.7gr.  Being relatively new to reloading 10mm, I've come to view Hornady's data as a little on the hot side, especially after a scary experience with 800X, which they give way higher values for, in the Vector.  I worked up to 9.5gr (carefully hand measured) of 800X on top of a 180gr Hornady FMJ in new Starline brass.  The first shot actually sheared the brass in half.  The bottom half of the brass truly looked pregnant.   

sqlbullet, thanks for the tip on powder lots.  I'll certainly be paying close attention and working back up when I crack open a new bottle.

This looks to be the place to be for learning, good to be here.

[The_Shadow]

When I first started loading with older AA#7 back in the early 90's, I did see some pressure signs @ 12.0 grains.  However when I tested the LOVEX D037.01 13.0 grains*
*(said to have same load weights as AA#7)  same as Shooter's World - Major Pistol powder

My results are posted here: http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-180gr-hornady-xtp(112014)-pull-down/msg37140/#msg37140

[mr.revolverguy]

Doeman,

Please be very careful with the Kriss Vector and really hot loads. I have actually been working with Vector because I have seen with saami spec but yet hot loads the Vector would actually split the cases. The lock time in the longer barrel allows for increased pressure.


Kriss and I are still going back and forth in a very nice way they are trying to be very helpful and they are good people.

At this point though kind of like you are getting at, if medium velocity loads out of a longer barrel gives you top end performance with a longer sight radius which may mean you have a better chance at hitting your target why do you need heavy loads. I may end up ticking with the 550 to 600 ft pound loads which would be burners out of the Kriss because of the longer barrel.

I repeat though I would not go really hot with your loads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz1OqnbnT4k&t=1703s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXOf9vAAtOw&t=4s

[doeman]

mr.revolverguy,

Thanks for the picture and advice.  That is split is exactly what happened when I tested a load with 9.5gr of 800X under a 180gr XTP -- it was a shocking moment.  I've since started loading 'Vector only' rounds that would be considered mid-range in my Glock 20, but as you pointed out, the extra barrel brings some oomph.

Please keep us in the loop on your talks with Kriss.  I'd be fascinated to hear what they say as the gun is a great platform.

[mr.revolverguy]

Apologies on resurrecting this thread -- Doeman did you get any pictures of your brass and issues. The more data collected the better.

[doeman]

Hi mr.revolverguy,

Sure do.  Here they are:





This was new Starline brass loaded to the following specs:
180gr Hornady FMJ, CCI 300 primers, 9.5gr 800-X, 1.260 OAL

[Kenk]

Wow, not something I want to come up against : (

[The_Shadow]

It appears that you also are having issue with the KRISS Vector ripping the brass in half.  When I talked with Mr. Revolver Guy about that happening in his I mentioned that the dwell timing is possibly too short, starting ejection while the pressures are still too high and also the ejection being drastic.  Not sure if they can tame the ejection with better recoil spring in the system.

[mr.revolverguy]

Still working on this guys

[Muskrat]

Maybe something like a radial delayed blowback system would work...

Seriously though, I'm seeing a smile and a cratered primer...plus the brass torn in half. It seems obvious that the load is way to hot for THAT gun.

That said load might work in a different gun is irrelevant if you're shooting it in a Kriss. Or am I missing something?

[mr.revolverguy]

Quick check in.

In working with Kriss I got a different spring and I have now shot 6 brands of 10MM ammo out of it without issue. Including BB, UW and even light stuff like Federal HST. I am way excited about this.