Brass bulge...how much is too much?

[Muskrat]

I never got any notable brass bulging from my Glock 20 with a KKM barrel, but since getting a Banshee, brass bulge is an issue. Most of my bulged brass is A-USA garbage brass and I normally just discard any brass with a visible bulge, but my curiosity is getting the best of me.

Some brass is obviously unsalvageable, since you can't even resize it without creating a visible crease. But other pieces resize just fine. Or do they?

I'm not shooting this brass for anything other than targets, but a torn piece of brass stuck in the chamber is going to be a PITA to remove.

So just how far can you stretch brass before it won't resize with acceptable case strength for warm 10mm loads? When the Banshee bulges brass it does so in a uniform ring close to the case head...not on just one portion of the case like an unsupported pistol chamber.

[The_Shadow]

Its hard to say with the Banshee, I know that the Glock Factory Barrels allow brass to expand to 0.434" at which point it will start to leave a distinct line (SMILE).
If you are seeing a smooth rounded expansion you may be able to pass through size the brass for reconditioning but it will become work hardened quicker if is being worked a lot by resizing...

Only testing the pass through resizing may show if it is worth the effort!

[Trapper6L]

FWIW, I load for a lot of guns of the family. They bring me all kinds of brass to reload. ANY A-USA brass goes straight to the trash can. I won't load it. From not sizing correctly, no neck tension, primer pockets way out of size or flash holes so off center it's a wonder it ever went off. I won't even consider reloading it. If that's all the brass you have, you're outa brass.

[Muskrat]

Some of the bulges are dramatic enough that any attempt to resize them will both be unsuccessful and create a crease where the bulge refuses to go into the sizing die, but there are no sharp lines like you see with a smile.

More modestly bulged brass can be resized, though there is a visible line where the edge of the bulge was. Looking at the line under 20x magnification it looks like a concentric, even indentation...a dent into the brass. I can see no signs of tearing or shearing, but obviously the brass has been subjected to more than normal forces.

Guess I'll set some aside and experiment with them.

[DenStinett]

My Witness Longslide is the only 10mm I have that does leave a slight Bulge
I bought the Lee Carbide 10mm Factory Crimp Die and their Bulge Buster Kit
https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-40sw10mm.html
https://leeprecision.com/case-conditioning-tools/lee-bulge-buster-kit/
They've worked great for my needs

[cwlongshot]

IMHO A BULDGE BUSTER is a recipe for a problem.

IF THE BRASS IS BULGED ENOUGH to need a pass thru to replace. RELAXE IT!

IMHO folks are just clueless. If it's bulging in the web than brass is toast and you need adjust your load or look close at your gun. ITS NOT COMMON and it's a problem.

Today some makers with blow back actions are causing bulged cases because it's a BLOW BACK and some Powders and loads are such that pressure curve hasn't dropped sufficiently. All loads don't work in all guns across the board.

The responsibility is in the operator to see understand and react so there is no problems. If ya don't know learn.

Pics have been posted an nearly every forum speaking of a 40/10mm. Glaocks have generous chambers and many loads fired from Them will show expansion to the hawks eye. THIS IS NOT THE DANGEROUS BULDGE many think it is. A dangerous BULDGE will SHEAR part way theu brass and subsequent firing could Likely cause a failure. This failure will be a split case and gas at high velocity ejecting into the firearm where your hand is. Not fun many times no lasting damage but possibility is there ya could be really hurt. Been there and seen that happen. Be smart your loved ones will appreciate that. It's brass as "expensive" as you might say it is it's FAR AND AWAY cheaper than your health.

A BULDGE will be noticeable and deliberate like a woman in her ninth month of pregnancy, it's obvious.

If ya THINK that your brass is there either just toss it. Or separate and don't use u till someone knowing can verify for you. Post pics here many knowledgeable guys will tell ya straight away.

CW

[Johnnyreloader]

I think cwlongshot was pointing out there is a difference between case "bulge" and regular case expansion. Bulge is typically caused by less than full chamber support in case head area. Glick is notorious for this. Case expansion is a different beast and to be expected. Measure case just above extraction grove. In my G20, case expands to .431". In Ruger SR1911 and XDM 10, cases expand to .428". Both are acceptable, but the .431" cases will split sooner. The "Glock bulge" is exactly as described, looks like a pregnant women in 9th month. Those cases are scrap, very dangerous to reload.

[DenStinett]

IMHO folks are just clueless.

IMHO .... this part of your post was uncalled for
The rest .... duly noted
The "Bulge" I see with my Witness is just low enough on the Brass as to not resize all the way in my RCBS Carbide Sizing Die
And is NOT really visible to the naked eye, but will not cleanly drop into and/or out of my L.E. Wilson Max Cartridge Gauge
As such, I run this Brass through the "Bulge Buster" to completely resize it
I have reloaded this Brass quite a few times and it has yet to show any sign of failure
Brass fired from; 2 Witnesses, a Glock and a Delta Gold Cup

[cwlongshot]

There is currently an explosion of new gun owners. Previously a large influx of brand new reloaders. It's the personality of these folks to be a know it all. They read things from others (who also don't know but crow loudly) and crown them selves experts.

My comment is what I see and wasn't specifically directed at any one person. There are folks on here that probably know more than I. We stop learning for two reasons and two reasons alone. CHOICE and DEATH.  But speaking to myself. I started reloading in the mid/late 1970's. I have 75/80 die sets I load and shoot almost daily. I have owned 10mm's since there was a 10mm. I am no expert, but I'll venture a guess I know about as much as anyone in the caliber and have at least as much hands on experience loading and shooting it. There is one on my hip as I write this.

I didn't write it to offend, those who really do know, also know they do and shouldn't be offended.

The knowing folks around here are a true asset and help and guide new folks. Its not a slight not to know something. But it IS a slight not to try and learn anything ya can about what interests ya. Especially when in the presence of guys who do know. (Guys here not specifically speaking of myself) Trying not to come off a pompous ass. While still explaining I can and will also help wham I can.

Be safe everyone. Things are gettin real out there.

CW

[The_Shadow]

cwlongshot, no offence take here by me...  I too have been hanloading my own ammo since 1978.  I can say I am still learning daily, despite my wealth of knowledge and data collected.

I can also say that one of my eye opening experiences was a 380ACP Case Blowout...Why did it blowout?  I was working with many unknowns while trying to workup a load for a Bullet that was too heavy (125 grain cast HP based on a 147 grain solid) and too long for the load I started with.  While I thought I was working close to the upper end of performance it was too hot pressure wise.  However my first shot went off with out a hitch (making velocity 1037 fps) using a old PPU brass case, this case wasn't to be found right away to study.    Had I found it, I would have never pulled the trigger on the next round!  Why didn't I find it right away?  I was setup on the 7 yard line and later found that case on the 15 yard line!
Anyway I proceeded to test the second cartridge with a newer looking brass case that I had loaded for the test.  Well that case blew out with a velocity of 1038 fps, the pressure pushed the guts of the magazine and stung my hand...Why?  The load was the exact same as the first one, however this case was upon further inspection was thinner, the base near the primer flash hole has a recessed area below the flash hole and not flat across the inside like other brands.  While I wasn't hurt physically, but my handloading / reloading pride had a stain that weighed heavy on my foolish push for not starting out lower.  I have a great respect for that tiny Ruger LCP that handled this abuse as well as it did...

Long story short, if you push the limits, the limits can and will push back!

You are correct that these newer Reloaders / Handloaders on the forum and or social groups are not taking the time to learn the steps about each process like one can learn using the single stage press.  Many jump in with the progressive presses, with the goal of making lots of ammo quickly while they give up the inspections at each step! 

[sqlbullet]

You are correct that these newer Reloaders / Handloaders on the forum and or social groups are not taking the time to learn the steps about each process like one can learn using the single stage press.  Many jump in with the progressive presses, with the goal of making lots of ammo quickly while they give up the inspections at each step!

It's not even the guys that jump straight to progressive that bother me.  I had a friend/co-worker years ago whose first press was a Lee Pro1000.  He jumped right in, read the manual, selected a nice starting load and cranked out 50 rounds and tested.  Happy with the performance, he never went beyond the starting load. He didn't want to push boundaries or exceed factory performance, he just wanted cheap plinking ammo and educated himself on how to achieve that goal.

What bothers me are the questions I see in other forums and social media sites where someone asks a basic question that illustrates they have never read a reloading manual, and then are offended when you tell them to RTFM.  Reloading is inherently safe IF and only if you know your goal and understand the safe steps to get there.  Those steps are outlined in about 2 hours of reading in any decent reloading manual.  Don't touch the press, be it single stage, turret or progressive until you finish the manual.  Go back and re-read any parts that are relevant to your goals that you cannot explain to your grandma (or grandson depending on your demographic).

The worst offenders are guys that pop up on social media and ask nonsense like "Whats a good recipe for 9mm using H4831 I have on hand?".  They don't know enough to even know that there are a huge number of "9mm" variants, all have different load data only one would use H4831.  And that one is very unusual; 9.3X74R.  Unusual enough that I would very much not expect someone who owns it to ask such a vague question.

Perhaps I am a curmudgeon. 

[DenStinett]

OK ....
This Thread has gone WAaay off the rails
Go back and READ the OP
A question was asked
Then information was offered
It's not about taking offence
But belittling someone IS NOT a good teaching method !

[Muskrat]

A random selection of reload and factory ammo with Banshee Bulging at the base:



Some are swollen to the point that they cannot be resized. Others run through the dies fine.

Here are some resized and bulge-busted:



Close-up:



I'm setting aside once-fired Starline brass with Banshee Bulge, and if they resize fine I'll reload them and see what happens with the brass. Multi-loaded mixed brass with bulging goes in the trash.

Any input?

[The_Shadow]

Muskrat what dies are you sizing with?  Hornady?  Other?

[Muskrat]

Muskrat what dies are you sizing with?  Hornady?  Other?

I'm using a Lee 4 die set.