Here is my article on testing the 10mm Auto Hornady ammo.

Hunter · March 23 2013 06:58:35 PM MDT

Opinions please.

http://www.gunclassifieds.com/blog/10mm-ballistic-gel-test-with-hornady-ammo/

The_Shadow · March 23 2013 07:20:26 PM MDT

Very nice documentation and article! ${$default_cool_smiley}$

Hunter · March 23 2013 07:23:37 PM MDT

Thank you very much sir.

MCQUADE · March 23 2013 07:38:24 PM MDT

Good job!

4949shooter · March 23 2013 08:07:12 PM MDT

Nicely done! ${$default_wink_smiley}$

REDLINE · March 23 2013 09:24:19 PM MDT

It was great and I loved the testing.

Stooping to nitpicking I would only add that it's not true any FBI agent had difficulty with recoil of the 10mm Auto rounds they were issued. Agents were only ever issued the FBI Lite load (180gr JHP subsonic) and were shooting it from a large heavy all steel platform (S&W M1076 which is 36 oz. empty, and 44 oz. loaded). Federal and S&W simply realized they could put an overall smaller package together that achieved the same ballistics in the same .400" caliber, but in a 9mm sized platform than a 45 Auto sized platform, so it only made sense in the long run.

sqlbullet · March 23 2013 09:38:14 PM MDT

Good article.

I would echo Redline though about the factual accuracy of the FBI timeline. The FBI lite load was developed in December of 1988, 13 months before the contract for 10mm guns was awarded to Smith and Wesson, 20 months before the first guns reached agents. The FBI lite load was also the load tested against 38, 9mm and 45 ACP. (reference)

The reason for the download was concern about the Colt 1911 test guns standing up to the pressure of commercial ammo of the period. Sorry I can't find the reference for that. I read it a number of years ago in an article written by the FBI lab member who loaded the first FBI lite rounds.

REDLINE · March 23 2013 09:45:41 PM MDT

Quote from: sqlbullet on March 23 2013 09:38:14 PM MDTThe reason for the download was concern about the Colt 1911 test guns standing up to the pressure of commercial ammo of the period.

Not to take away from what you're saying, but to add to it; They were happy to download it to that level as it still allowed for adequate penetration and expansion. IOW, going subsonic didn't take away their penetration and expansion objectives.

Hunter · March 23 2013 10:02:29 PM MDT

Good to know on the 10mm Lite. I referenced a few books I had on that and verified that with what I found online. I appreciate the heads up. I will make the correction but can you enlighten me on why the FBI dropped the round. Thanks again.

enidpd804 · March 23 2013 10:11:54 PM MDT

I liked it. Well-written.

REDLINE · March 24 2013 12:02:00 AM MDT

Quote from: Hunter on March 23 2013 10:02:29 PM MDT...but can you enlighten me on why the FBI dropped the round. Thanks again.

I don't have a reference to back this up. I understand that it was simply the tactical advantage of going to a lighter more compact platform (9mm Luger sized as opposed to 45 Auto sized) using a different newly developed round (40 S&W) that offered the same ballistics. The funny thing is felt recoil actually increased in the process. There's always give and take.

4949shooter · March 24 2013 03:21:21 AM MDT

The reference I have, Combat Handgunnery 3rd Edition (chapter 9 page 102), written by the late Chuck Karwan, tells us the FBI had mechanical problems with their original 1076 pistols. They in turn dropped the 1076 and went with the Sig 226 in 9mm at the time.

While it is true the 10mm in it's heavy loading was never issued to FBI agents generally, the FBI did test the hot loads in the Smith and Wesson handguns and felt the recoil would be too much in the 1076 for general issue (same reference).

It is interesting to note that Chuck Karwan was a huge proponent of the 10mm. The above listed reference features a Gen 2 Glock 20 on the cover along with a spare mag loaded with Winchester Silvertips (probably the hot Silvertip version of the time period).

Edit: Here is the book: http://www.abebooks.com/Gun-Digest-Book-Combat-Handgunnery-3rd/1815915879/bd

sqlbullet · March 24 2013 06:54:53 PM MDT

I don't have a reference, but I have an opinion.

The 1076 is a big, heavy gun. Which agents didn't like carrying. And it didn't have a double stack round count. And more is better.

And, most mfg's were happy to embrace the 40 S&W which fit easily in their 9mm wonder-nine actions. The 10mm, not so much.

All this lead to agents asking for something different and mfg's pushing something different.

Raggedyman · March 25 2013 10:13:26 AM MDT

Nice article, thanks for sharing it with us. I really think the 10mm cartridge is enjoying a renaissance of sorts due, in large part, to articles like yours.

If you have the numbers available, could you let us know what the max and min expansion figures were for the fabric shots and bare gel? Did you get any expansion with the 200 gr through fabric? I think your results are roughly consistent with my own but several variables are different so I'm really interested in hearing your opinions on what might have caused the differences.

My own 10mm XTP tests: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4bt-Jy7IRR52mEXOacaT1GM-eitH-7C7

4949shooter · March 25 2013 01:41:22 PM MDT

Quote from: sqlbullet on March 24 2013 06:54:53 PM MDT
I don't have a reference, but I have an opinion.

The 1076 is a big, heavy gun. Which agents didn't like carrying. And it didn't have a double stack round count. And more is better.

And, most mfg's were happy to embrace the 40 S&W which fit easily in their 9mm wonder-nine actions. The 10mm, not so much.

All this lead to agents asking for something different and mfg's pushing something different.

i'm sure what you have as your opinion had a lot to do with the FBI's choice as well.