How much is enough

[Kenk]

Agreed, I most often carry my 19rd XDm 9 now, vs a 10 in an urban environment. I still carry my RIA high cap 10 on occasion, but it's primary use is for woods protection and range fun. There is something to be said about controllability when the stress is high, and quick follow up shorts are required

[5pins]

Very well put Muskrat, I couldn't agree more. Pushing the envelope in any caliber can lead to a host of malfunctions and controllably issues. And you probably are not going to gain much in terminal performance. A reliable gun is better than a jamomatic with more power

[Rojo27]

Even though .40 and .45 get preferential scoring in USPSA matches, I see virtually nothing but 9mm guns. Price plays a part no doubt, but the handful of people who take turns in first place all shoot 9mm. They're good shooters, but they choose the lowest recoil option that will make minor power factor. The extra points allotted for major power factor doesn't compensate for the slower shooting times.

Reading though the posts in this tread, I was going to make this point.  If you go from middle of the pack to top five when moving from 10mm to 40s&w......  Then stands to reason 9mm is the way to go in USPSA matches. 

Undeniable wisdom in your perspective.  Brings to mind the story of the old bull and the young bull.
Although if I'm being honest, I haven't evolved enough yet. 
Not interested in the hairy edge, nuclear stuff (when in the woods with things with claws, fangs, tusks, speed and or disproportionate to me power) anymore.  However the legitamit real 10mm stuff works just fine for me.  I practice a decent amount with my woods carry loads so I'm confident (not cocky) with my choices and abilities.  Sometimes you do everything perfectly and things still don't go your way.  Sometimes you screw everything up and things still come out aces.  I'll pass on the weak sauce unless I've chosen to carry 40s&w or 9mm (which I do on occassion) and own the responsibility whatever the outcome. 
Life is culmination of choices and each of them come with consequence (intended and unintended). 

[Muskrat]

Reading though the posts in this tread, I was going to make this point.  If you go from middle of the pack to top five when moving from 10mm to 40s&w......  Then stands to reason 9mm is the way to go in USPSA matches.

Ya...it's been pointed out to me by a couple people that if I actually put a little skin in the game I might be a player...albeit a very minor one. After years of just strapping a leather pancake holster to my pants belt at matches I finally bought a "real" gun belt and a $20 Blade-Tech kydex holster just for USPSA. It did reduce draw time somewhat...

But every time I pick up a piece of 9mm brass I think "so...you guys actually spend time reloading these things?" I don't know...they just seem too small to even bother with unless you have a progressive press and can crank them out while watching Simpson re-runs.

I suppose if I had a 9mm other than a Glock 26 I might reconsider, but I use USPSA as a platform to practice with guns I actually cary, and I really don't foresee carrying a 9mm in the next ten years. I think the .40 is ballistically superior (significantly), and while I might shoot a 9mm a little faster, I can shoot a .40 fast enough that I see no good reason to change.

Shooting matches are something that, for me, probably have an inverse relationship between commitment and enjoyment. I guess it's probably like golf (never golfed, but watched people do it)...all fun in the sun on your day off until you start taking it seriously and obsessing over the score, at which point it's both the worst and most expensive part of the whole week.

This afternoon I shot 300 rounds of 10mm at regulation Steel Challenge 10" disks. I knocked the disks off of the hangars seven times...there's just no other calibre that ever does that. So fun.

[Kenk]

Absolutely, I don't compete, but it's tough to beat the big fun shooting 10's 😀

[Muskrat]

So I was considering a Glock 29 for those times when it just doesn't seem worth hauling the Glock 20 around.

Then I got to considering how much I'd have to de-rate a woods load for it to be controllable in a gun that small.

Once I got done thinking about that, I concluded that it probably made more sense to load up some hot 180 grain hard cast for my Glock 27 and I'd be at the exact same spot, just $600 richer.

Sure wish Glock made something in-between the 20 and the 29. I'd even vote for a single-stack if it had enough grip for all my fingers to get a purchase.

[sqlbullet]

Glock 29 with a pearce grip extension adds a place for you full hand, adds 2 rounds to the magazine and doesn't increase the printable size hardly at all.  And sure is easier to shoot than my Glock 27.

[Muskrat]

What makes the 29 easier to shoot than the 27?

I've got pierce grip extensions on my 27 and 26 and I still find the grip pretty sorry. Maybe the fatter grip of the 29 makes a difference?

[Mike D]

I too am a fan of the G29 with the +2 extensions. With a slightly stiffer recoil spring I don't find it unpleasant to shoot at all even with full power Underwood 165 grain Gold Dot rounds.


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[sqlbullet]

What makes the 29 easier to shoot than the 27?

I've got pierce grip extensions on my 27 and 26 and I still find the grip pretty sorry. Maybe the fatter grip of the 29 makes a difference?

The extra weight and size.  The Glock 29 is really the same size as the Glock 19 - a compact, where the 26/27 is a sub-compact.  Even with the pearce on the 27 it doesn't fit my hand...Too small still.

[45BBH]

Concerning the idea of using a FMJ loaded hot, I don't really see a lot of point to that but that isn't to say there is zero point, maybe somebody would use that for a load focused solely on penetration.  The only point where I do think it's useful would be for practicing but only if what you're going to be carrying is the JHP equivalent. 

Now in general, I think the sweet spot for most handguns rounds is less than absolute maximum potential but still more than what would be considered typical factory velocities.  This holds true with nearly any of them, be it .40 or 10mm or .45.  It's fun to see what a cartridge will do and I've pretty much pushed .40, 10mm and 45 Super about as far as they will go, but I don't really see an absolute need for utilizing such loads with the possible exception of using them for hunting, but really never for social work.   I think it's about the blend of having more power than "normal" but with enough margin of safety as to be utterly reliable.

[Kenk]

Well said 45BBH

Ken

[Bimmer]

...how much velocity increase is needed to be useful?

So, where does that boundary lie for you.  For FMJ, or for JHP, how much velocity increase in a given bullet weight makes you turn your head and take notice?

Depends... 

If it's practice/competition loads, then I'm loading as light as possible.  Usually lighter is cheaper:   win-win. 


If I'm thinking about terminal performance or trajectory, then it's a cost:benefit analysis... 

In terms of percentages, another 100fps from 5.56 or 7.62 (or even 17HMR) doesn't really matter, but it would be a BFD from a handgun. 

So, for example, I might pay a bit more for hotter ammo, but only proportionately to how much hotter it is...


Really, I think the best solution is to pick one decent load per caliber, stockpile a bunch of it, and then practice, practice, practice. 

[Kenk]

Absolutely a true fact!

[Muskrat]

Concerning the idea of using a FMJ loaded hot, I don't really see a lot of point to that but that isn't to say there is zero point, maybe somebody would use that for a load focused solely on penetration...

So the problem there is that FMJ loads use a soft lead core, and the copper jacket doesn't keep the lead core from deforming...which causes it to tumble...which retards both penetration and straight-line wound channels. If you want penetration use a hard cast bullet. If you want expansion use a hollow point bullet. Hot FMJ loads are neither fish nor fowl...just a target bullet going faster than is useful, unless that extra velocity somehow translates into extra accuracy.

Obviously they can still be lethal, but there are much better choices for perforating anything other than paper targets or soup cans.