How much is enough

[The_Shadow]

Well Just got out the hospital for A-Fib issues, still hoping meds will correct this if not the I'll have to get shocked to set it straight...
My comment about the Fenix ammo being on the hotter side is based on loads we have documented in the past from Swap Fox Ammo and even older Underwood.

While I have loaded the LongShot powder under many of my personal loads, I have stopped at 9.4 grains Longshot under the 200 grain JHP's making 1240 fps - 1250 fps from Factory G-20 barrel.
With the 180 grain JHP's I stop at 9.6 grains making 1300 + fps G-20 Factory barrel...These are woods carry that I load, considering longer distances to target.
I feel that 1200 fps for 200 grain is more than enough and 1250 fps for the 180's as carry ammo on the street.

Any way just checking in after being away for a few days...

[Muskrat]

Bummer about the a-fib, Shadow. Many of the men in my family suffer from it.

One thing we learned...the longer it goes untreated the less likely it will ever be brought under control. So get on it asap any time you think you've slipped back into aterial fibration!

Dad says that while getting shocked isn't much fun, it's the catheter that ruins the day.

good luck!

[Kenk]

Added to my Prayer list Friend, and yes, the catheter thing is the frigen worst

[The_Shadow]

Thanks for the well wishes and prayers!  Hoping things work out!
The worst part of A-Fib if not caught early is blood clots, they popped me with blood thinners the day I went to the hospital Thursday morning and meds to bring my heart rates down and IV's to try and let it convert to a normal rhythm again...some times the meds will work with time, if it doesn't I have to schedule to have them use a ultra sound down the throat to look at the back side of the heart and then shock to convert the rhythm back to normal...

By the way I had been tracking my blood pressure and also felt my heart having higher beat rate which showed on the BP monitor as well, that's when I headed to the hospital to be checked in and start treatments...Being a retired fireman with EMT background I sort of suspected what I was feeling early on...

[4949shooter]

Feel better Shadow. My buddy has been dealing with this problem for years. When they changed his medication it really messed him up.

Stay well my friend..

[The_Shadow]

4949shooter, Thanks!  Tomorrow is my Dr. appointment so I will find out where I stand...

[blaster]

  wow! good luck at the Doctors tomorrow! sorry to hear this.

[rognp]

Good luck with the A fib. It can really be inconvenient, but the bllod thinners even more so.
Two types Warfarin or the new fancy dont monitor types. At least warfarin is reversible the more modern not so.
Hope they can keep yours under control.

[Muskrat]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, especially since I recently shelved my Underwood woods loads in favor of milder hand-loads.

Like most folks interested in ballistics, I've always figured the hotter the better. Heavier bullets, higher velocities, or preferably both. Maximize it! That's obviously the most lethal combination...right?

Maybe not...

While I love Underwood ammo, it, or hand-loads that duplicate it, are ALWAYS the rounds that will cause a failure to feed. If I have a stoppage, it's with super-hot ammo. I've tried four different spring combinations and two different barrels and five different magazines, and while I can reduce the problem...even eliminate it with a perfect grip, it comes right back when I intentionally shoot with a compromised grip to simulate cold or injured hands. Reduced loads have proven MUCH more forgiving of imperfect grip in my experience.

More power never compensates for less reliability in my book. Maybe if I had a gun that fed Underwood-level ammo perfectly no matter how I gripped it I'd stick with it, but then again, maybe not. Recoil comes into play, and it's not an insignificant factor in handgun lethality.

I'm lucky enough to live where large furry things are more of a threat than people, and I cary a 10mm rather than a large bore revolver because I think the 10mm is more lethal in defensive shootings, even against huge bears. That's because I can get a lot more shots on target with a 10mm than I can with a .44, never mind a .454 or some other hip bazooka. But anyone who's shot a few boxes of Underwood 220 grain hard cast knows that it's just not the same animal as other 10mm loads. Recoil is significantly stronger, and follow-up shots are significantly slower...at least if you want them on target. So while it's a given that extra power isn't worth reduced reliability, is that extra power even worth the extra recoil?

I do a reasonable amount of USPSA and Steel Challenge shooting with my 10mm because I like shooting it. But if I switch to my .40 S&W, my scores go up dramatically...like from middle of the pack to the top five. The reason is recoil, pure and simple. The increased recoil of the 10mm means slower follow-on shots or less accuracy...take your pick. It may not seem like that big a deal punching paper at the range, but in dynamic shooting against the clock, it's huge.

At the risk of being struck by lightning, I think the FBI was real smart to first download and then drop the 10mm as a service weapon in favor of the .40 S&W, and I think that companies like Federal are smart to offer 10mm defensive ammo that mimics the .40's ballistics. If I were for some reason carrying a 10mm for defense against people, I'd pick 180 grains @ 950 fps over 180 grains @ 1350 fps. And when I do arm myself for people-protection, I take one of my .40's, not my 10mm, for the exact same reason that I take my 10mm for wildlife protection instead of a .44 mag.

Adequate power and fast follow-on shots have consistently proven to be more lethal than more power and slower follow-on shots. Where exactly that line is has caused the occasional debate.

So I'm carrying downloaded ammo these days...220 grains at -1100 fps, 200 grains at -1200 fps, 180 grains at -1300 fps, all from a 6" barrel, and easily 150 fps slower than what's possible. Reliability is the main reason, but the other reason is I'm just not convinced that extra 150 fps is really doing me more good than harm in a handgun cartridge.

Just thoughts...

[jazzsax8]

Muskrat

This is a good read and you make a perfect case for making your current choices.  You pretty much have me convinced to join you in the quest for reliability and best personal accuracy for this 10mm round.

Thanks a bundle

[4949shooter]

Muskrat,

Though I know in my heart you are correct about the FBI and the 10mm....

I wish they would have stayed with the mighty ten for versatility. Let the mediocre shooters carry light loads. Let the better shooters, and the SWAT guys carry full or near full power ten ammo.

I luv the 10mm too much to give it up completely for the FBI's sake. If the Feebs would have stayed with the ten, then all the other LE agencies who went with the .40 after the Feebs would have been carrying tens.

Though I know the ten mm is more of a "niche" round for hunters, outdoorsmen, and fanatical shooters like us. I still wish the FBI would have kept it.

Wouldn't have affected my agency though. When all the other agencies were going with .40, we stayed with 9. I am now retired but they still carry the 9mm, as does my son.

Stay safe and well...

[Muskrat]

Ya....when I started in law enforcement I'd have given up my pension to cary a 10mm...funny how things change.

If I didn't shoot both calibers in identical matches and see the vastly different scores, I would probably think differently about it. After all, I've been shooting for decades and shoot many thousands of rounds each year... I'm 6'5" with strong arms and massive hands, so surly I can shoot a 10mm just as fast and accurate as any other caliber. Turns out that's not the case.

Now the FBI is back to a 9mm...quite a step down in ballistics from the .40 S&W. No opinion on that, but I think it's interesting.

Even though .40 and .45 get preferential scoring in USPSA matches, I see virtually nothing but 9mm guns. Price plays a part no doubt, but the handful of people who take turns in first place all shoot 9mm. They're good shooters, but they choose the lowest recoil option that will make minor power factor. The extra points allotted for major power factor doesn't compensate for the slower shooting times.

[Kenk]

Plus with the advances in defensive ammo technology, along with the hi cap 9's that are available, I think LE's decision to go back the 9 was a smart choice, thus making quick and accurate follow up shots possible for those that don't live and breathe shooting

Ken

[gadabout]

Funny I ended up making this decision many years ago. Shooting 9's was easyer and cheaper even for handloading. 10MM was always fun and I took to it buying a Witness first, then a Kimber. I also shoot a 40 but not that often. I also think 17 rounds are better than less rounds even when it's a 9mm.  Just has always been my thinking.  Craig

[Kenk]

Agreed, I most often carry my 19rd XDm 9 now, vs a 10 in an urban environment. I still carry my RIA high cap 10 on occasion, but it's primary use is for woods protection and range fun. There is something to be said about controllability when the stress is high, and quick follow up shorts are required