Not sure what to think of these Civil Defense rd’s

[Kenk]

Not sure what to think of these Liberty Ammunition / Civil Defense rd's, but will be fun to try a box : )

Civil Defense 10mm
Weight: 60 Gr
Velocity: 2,400 FPS
Kinetic Energy: 780 FPE
Accuracy: < 1" @ 25 Meters
Terminal Effect: 4 -1/2" W x 12" D
Rounds: 20 per box

https://libertyammo.com/product/civil-defense-10mm/

[sqlbullet]

It definitely has the velocity to create some permanent wound cavity from hydro static shock. However, the low mass is going to limit penetration.  Typically I expect rounds like this to make ugly surface wounds but not reliably reach to critical internal areas.

But that velocity intrigues me.  Would love to see a gel test on this round.  The 78 grain 45 ACP +p round at 1900 fps is impressive in gel, with the core reaching 12" and the permanent wound cavity between 3" and 6" looking quite impressive.  The test video did not layer any cloth before the gel, so it was not an FBI protocol test.

The price is what slows me down.  $1.90+ per shot is out of my budget.

[Trapper6L]

Under Factory ammo you'll find 5 Pins did a gel test on the 9mm and 357 Liberty ammo. I'm from the school of  thought that if you have a pass thru bullet, it failed to deliver the total amount of energy that it had. I doubt any pass thrus with the Liberty ammo but you never know. The base of the bullet, who's weight is an unknown, could be the part that gets thru. It could end up being as heavy as any 22 bullet. But the wound channel can't be denied and looks like to me plenty deep or at least deep enough to stop a brush warrior. I've got some of the 10mm coming to try on feral hogs. But it'll be late January before I get back in the brush to give it a try.

[Kenk]

Like sqlbullet mentioned, the cost is a huge deterrent, but will still try one box for fun

[Graybeard]

I find the velocity that these generate intriguing, as well. There's something to be said for rifle speed out of a handgun round. Although I'm not completely sold that this is that great.

After looking at the manufacturer's bare gel test and several others, especially those with barriers, there seems to be quite a difference. One thing that jumps out is that the base seems to continue at extreme angles in every video except the manufacturer's. There's one of it being tested on a pork shoulder the isn't particularly impressive at all. I could see this being a good round for Air Marshals, or anywhere that over penetration would be a big problem.

With the speed these generate, I'm also wondering why the fragmenting design is necessary at all. Why not something like a slotted steel cup bonded to the inside of the hollow point cavity? Keep the mass, expand like a traditional hollow point, and probably deal with barriers better.

[Kenk]

Thanks Graybeard, it just seems kinda gimmicky to me, but could be great ammo???

Thanks

Ken

[Graybeard]

I watched one video of this ammo penetrating level 3a body armor from one brand and not another. The tester had ballistic clay behind the body armor. The cavity in the clay from the round that penetrated was almost exactly the same as the dent from the round that didn't. Makes me think that Sqlbullet is correct in the nasty superficial wound assumption.

[Kenk]

If I could justify the expenses of wrecking a perfectly good ham, or other, I would do so, but that's not going to happen : )

[Graybeard]

If I could justify the expenses of wrecking a perfectly good ham, or other, I would do so, but that's not going to happen : )

Absolutely not! No Christmas hams shall be harmed in the testing of this dubious ammo Let's see what Trapper6L can come up with next month on feral hogs. That's a better test anyway. My guess is there will be an angry hog with an ugly wound running away.

[Kenk]

Lol 😂