XDM Trigger

[Kenk]

Plus if it's a clean shoot your miles ahead. In MN, you best have 10 people videoing the guy on top of you with a butcher knife, and you still may have problems.

Ken

[Mike D]

Weird my trigger is not that bad and is perfect for SD handgun. I learn the trigger rather than replacing a trigger on an SD gun. Call me what you want but I am not giving any DA or jury a reason to put my butt up for years. A trigger job on a SD weapon can put you in bad defensive scenario if you are prosecuted by some liberal DA. It's personal choice good luck with it.

Not trying to be a smart aleck but do you have any case law to back this up or just internet speculation?


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[Kenk]

Hey Mike, nope, no case laws to back that up. I work with the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, and the MN FBI Citizens Acadamy (Which took me 4 years to become affiliated with) and have read about several  such rulings when it comes to SD shootings. All I know is that MN makes it harder than some states when it comes to these situations. The bottom line is that in Minnesota, you better have an EXTRA clean / justified shoot. At the end of the day, I don't know if aftermarket triggers or running home made reloads have anything to do with it. I do know however that serious justification for SD shootings are essential in MN to avoid temporary incarceration
Thanks

Ken

[woods_walker]

I do know however that serious justification for SD shootings are essential in MN...
Thanks

Ken

Guys,

This is the reality EVERYWHERE. Using a firearm in defense of self or others is the most serious business in which any of us will ever be involved. When people ask,"Do you have case law to prove..." or "Show me where the law says I can't modify...", it does nothing to  improve understanding of how the law works.

The fact of the matter is that there are different attitudes about guns and the law in different areas of the country. Here is an example of this-
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/north-phoenix/witness-shoots-suspect-during-armed-robbery-attempt-at-a-phoenix-walgreens

A customer shot an armed robber at point-blank range. He gave the robber no verbal warnings, just opened fire after watching the hold-up for several minutes. The Good Samaritan was not arrested, his firearm was not seized (though it was photographed inside and out at the scene, including during full disassembly). To date, according to my brother-in-law who is a mid-level admin trooper with Arizona Dept. of Public Safety (their name for state police), their have been no criminal or civil proceedings against the Good Samaritan.

The circumstances in that case are different than what Ken would encounter in Minnesota, or for another member in Colorado or Florida.  EVERY time we modify something, and that modification causes injury or death to others, we are liable. Put 12" of lift and 40" tires on your F-350 and get in an accident? You will face liability because you altered the manufacturers design. Do work on your house without approved plans and legal inspections, and then suffer a catastrophic failure of your work where someone is injured? Once again you are liable. Both of these examples have more precedent in case law than you might believe. And you believe that the specifics of a gun used in a shooting- whether self-defense or criminal- do not get brought up in court? Buddy, you're living in a bubble!

Liability can be found anywhere, and nobody can deny that. It is not good to have a cavalier attitude about the ramifications of carrying a firearm and having to use it. Knowledge of the laws in YOUR state, county, and city are what should guide you. Again, what happened in Arizona doesn't mean a thing in YOUR state. Want to modify your gun? Go ahead, it's your right to do anything you want with your possessions. If you are involved in a shooting, understand that those modifications most likely WILL be discussed during the grand jury or coroner's inquest.

For the record, I have Ghost Connectors in a few of my Glocks- but not my carry Glocks. For those, I agree with Ramjet and LEARN the gun instead of modifying it. The most I will ever do to a dedicated carry gun is to highly polish the internals, because everyone knows that Glock leaves too much in the way of tooling marks on their parts. I am just cleaning up factory parts.

And to the OP, I think much of your dissatisfaction with the trigger comes from your lack of exposure to striker-fired pistols. They have a completely different mechanism than a 1911 or a Sig , for example. NOTHING you do to it will make it as nice as a Series 70. Now, I understand not liking a trigger- I've owned many guns that had terrible triggers. Currently I own 6 XD's- 3 are Match models and I have a 10mm model en route to my LGS currently. The M-Series XD has a better trigger than the Service Grade model. If you didn't like the trigger in your XDM, I daresay you would have used a standard model as a hammer! If your trigger pull was truly as bad as you describe, you did yourself a disservice by not contacting Springfield Armory for repair. They are some of the most accommodating  people you will deal with in the gun world. I have no doubt that they could have made things better for you too.

[Kenk]

Very informative read, Thanks!

Ken

[sqlbullet]

Know and understand use of force laws in any jurisdiction where you will go about armed.  Review at least annually or before travel.

Know and understand the castle doctrine in any locale where you will sleep with a firearm for defense.  Review at least annualy or before travel.

Spend money now to consult with a good defense attorney.  Touch bases on occasion.

Omitting these steps, which most of us do, does far more to jeopardize you in the event you are involved in an SD shooting than a trigger job.

[Mike D]

I do know however that serious justification for SD shootings are essential in MN...
Thanks

Ken

Guys,

This is the reality EVERYWHERE. Using a firearm in defense of self or others is the most serious business in which any of us will ever be involved. When people ask,"Do you have case law to prove..." or "Show me where the law says I can't modify...", it does nothing to  improve understanding of how the law works.

The fact of the matter is that there are different attitudes about guns and the law in different areas of the country. Here is an example of this-
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/north-phoenix/witness-shoots-suspect-during-armed-robbery-attempt-at-a-phoenix-walgreens

A customer shot an armed robber at point-blank range. He gave the robber no verbal warnings, just opened fire after watching the hold-up for several minutes. The Good Samaritan was not arrested, his firearm was not seized (though it was photographed inside and out at the scene, including during full disassembly). To date, according to my brother-in-law who is a mid-level admin trooper with Arizona Dept. of Public Safety (their name for state police), their have been no criminal or civil proceedings against the Good Samaritan.

The circumstances in that case are different than what Ken would encounter in Minnesota, or for another member in Colorado or Florida.  EVERY time we modify something, and that modification causes injury or death to others, we are liable. Put 12" of lift and 40" tires on your F-350 and get in an accident? You will face liability because you altered the manufacturers design. Do work on your house without approved plans and legal inspections, and then suffer a catastrophic failure of your work where someone is injured? Once again you are liable. Both of these examples have more precedent in case law than you might believe. And you believe that the specifics of a gun used in a shooting- whether self-defense or criminal- do not get brought up in court? Buddy, you're living in a bubble!

Liability can be found anywhere, and nobody can deny that. It is not good to have a cavalier attitude about the ramifications of carrying a firearm and having to use it. Knowledge of the laws in YOUR state, county, and city are what should guide you. Again, what happened in Arizona doesn't mean a thing in YOUR state. Want to modify your gun? Go ahead, it's your right to do anything you want with your possessions. If you are involved in a shooting, understand that those modifications most likely WILL be discussed during the grand jury or coroner's inquest.

For the record, I have Ghost Connectors in a few of my Glocks- but not my carry Glocks. For those, I agree with Ramjet and LEARN the gun instead of modifying it. The most I will ever do to a dedicated carry gun is to highly polish the internals, because everyone knows that Glock leaves too much in the way of tooling marks on their parts. I am just cleaning up factory parts.

And to the OP, I think much of your dissatisfaction with the trigger comes from your lack of exposure to striker-fired pistols. They have a completely different mechanism than a 1911 or a Sig , for example. NOTHING you do to it will make it as nice as a Series 70. Now, I understand not liking a trigger- I've owned many guns that had terrible triggers. Currently I own 6 XD's- 3 are Match models and I have a 10mm model en route to my LGS currently. The M-Series XD has a better trigger than the Service Grade model. If you didn't like the trigger in your XDM, I daresay you would have used a standard model as a hammer! If your trigger pull was truly as bad as you describe, you did yourself a disservice by not contacting Springfield Armory for repair. They are some of the most accommodating  people you will deal with in the gun world. I have no doubt that they could have made things better for you too.

Case law pretty much sets precedence. To say that if it doesn't exist in case law is irrelevant is pretty much not how it works.




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[terdog]

I believe that part of the argument against such modifications is the whole "DEEP POCKETS" logic.

[Bongo Boy]

I'm sure stock XDm triggers vary, and maybe they vary a lot--I have no way of knowing.  I just took delivery of mine recently, and assume it's of recent manufacture.  I very much doubt the trigger has any negative impact at all on *my* accuracy with the gun, and of the 5 striker fired plastic guns I own, it's definitely among my favorites.  At my age or with eyes my age, the trigger is way down on the list of issues. Getting a good sight picture without the target being so ungodly blurry I can't get the same point of aim twice is a way bigger deal. I'm starting to walk away satisfied with 3" groups (freehand) at 15 yds