Underwood 10mm loads for two legged threats

[Kenk]

Evening,
I understand that there are numerous  factory 10mm loads available for defensive use (for two legged critters) however if Underwood's fine ammo was the only option (Heaven Forbid) what weight projectile / bullet style would be the most effective without over penetration? The only JHP's that I can think of off hand (excluding copper solids) that UW offers is the135 Nosler, 155gr XTP, 165gr GD, 180gr GD / XTP, and the 200gr XTP. I was watching a video earlier (see below) and has temporary talked me out of the 135gr Nosler, even though they are a total gas to shoot. For my current use, these would be fired from a RIA Ultra FS / HC. As for UW's offerings there are a few I didn't list, or are possibly incorrect, but it's late : )
Thanks

Ken

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood-135-gr

[Kenk]

It just seems like a heavier bullet, say 150, or 180 would be better for a defensive situation

[Graybeard]

 I think "over penetration" is the hardest criteria that you've added. Pretty much any 10mm that holds together at Underwood velocities will most likely pass through all but the most enormous person. On the occasions that I've carried a 10mm in an urban self defense role, it's loaded with my own 180gr XTP load that runs at a hair over 1300fps.

Since I usually carry a .45acp in that role, If I've switched to the 10mm, my concern isn't over penetration it's enough penetration.

[Kenk]

Hey Graybeard, I'm a .45 auto guy as well. I typically carry 230gr + P HST's in the G30, but recently picked up some UW 185gr + P XTP's. Not sure if or when I will change it up, but am confident the XTP's would perform fine
Thanks

Ken

[Kenk]

The attached could be a good alternative to the UW 135gr for carry purposes

[attachment deleted by admin]

[txbadge]

Hey Kenk
That Underwood load is a lot like the 357 Mag 125 grain load that had such a great reputation as a good defensive round.  I love Underwood loads in my 10.

[Kenk]

Absolutely, have bought way more UW ammo than than I ever should have 😀

[Graybeard]

Hey Ken, you may want to take a look at the Speer 230gr Gold Dots for short barrels in your G30. The Lucky Gunner Labs guys got excellent results from them. After a little research and testing, that's my new carry ammo.

[Kenk]

Nice, Thanks man! I also have some 230gr + P Ranger T on hand, but had a few FTF issues when testing them last week. Will need to do some serious testing before I will carry them

[Univibe]

Whatever recoils the least, so you can run your gun fastest.

[Kenk]

 that being said, unless a guy is seriously active in preparation / range drills, a high cap 9 with some HST's, Gold Dots, or other might be the ticket. Controllable & follow up is paramount...as I'm sure know
Thanks Univbe!

[Bluebird5000]

Evening,
I understand that there are numerous  factory 10mm loads available for defensive use (for two legged critters) however if Underwood's fine ammo was the only option (Heaven Forbid) what weight projectile / bullet style would be the most effective without over penetration? The only JHP's that I can think of off hand (excluding copper solids) that UW offers is the135 Nosler, 155gr XTP, 165gr GD, 180gr GD / XTP, and the 200gr XTP. I was watching a video earlier (see below) and has temporary talked me out of the 135gr Nosler, even though they are a total gas to shoot. For my current use, these would be fired from a RIA Ultra FS / HC. As for UW's offerings there are a few I didn't list, or are possibly incorrect, but it's late : )
Thanks

Ken

There are a lot of excellent tests that would help you make your decision on Youtube, just search for "Underwood 10mm gel test" to see how they perform. The Gold Dot they load is designed for .40 S&W velocities so it gets torn up (though I'd argue it makes a quite nasty hole!). The XTP bullets in 180-200gr will expand more, typically 15-20in in the gel tests I've seen. The 130gr Nosler and 155gr XTP will usually not penetrate the full 12in in ballistics gelatin that experts recommend, though from what I remember the 155gr XTP will do 11in or so (barely get there).

I like my carry loads to penetrate on the deeper side that the FBI recommends (12-18in in 10% ballistics gelatin) because I want to make sure the vitals are penetrated even from a non-optimal angle, and if I am lucky I want to sever the spine if the bullet placement is right. The 200gr XTP is not just a heavier 180gr XTP, it's velocity window is like 750fps to 1200fps whereas the 180gr xtp has a higher velocity window (I think to 1600 or 1800 ... I lost the PDF). So at 1250fps Underwood is pushing the XTP faster than recommended for hunting, but just barely and we can see it do well in gel tests and in field reports.

If I wanted less penetration but to still make the minimum 12' in gel I'd probably go with the 165gr or 180gr Gold Dot since they penetrate less and into overexpanded but very nasty projectiles. In many cases they just expand like crazy but don't really overexpand, I just want to be clear that when they do, they seem like they would still make a nasty hole.

Regarding the 130gr my major concern would be it seems to penetrate under 11 inches ... the experts are pretty adamant about it being better to just use ball if you don't meet the 12in mark. The bad guy in the miami dade shooting where the bullet stopped an inch short of the heart, was not a burly lumberjack guy and that bullet did about 11in in gel. In the accounts of real shootings I hear about, the bullets like 9mm Gold Dot that do 15-16in in gel seem to stop in the bad guys or be found inside their clothing or a few feet behind them. To me that's not really a big risk to someone behind them. Per the FBI research, overpenetration is a concern with a bullet that will penetrate over 18in in ballistics gel.

Anyways, it's an interesting question, I'm sharing 'facts' but it's just from googling this stuff over the years out of curiosity, and I have some of the numbers memorized for wondering which bullet to buy, I am not an expert.

[Kenk]

Thanks for the info Bluebird5000!

Ken

[Mike D]

I carry their 180 Gold Dots in all of mine. In full size guns they are at the limit of the bullet's design. They usually do a little breaking apart in gel and folding way back over themselves.

Anything lighter I would be worried about coming apart.


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[Kenk]

Thanks Mike