Thoughts on Underwood’s .45 ACP 185gr + P XTP for carry

[Kenk]

Afternoon folks,
I have been researching carry ammo for my G30. In the past I have stuck (for the most part) with Federal's HST 230gr LE loads, however I am considering some of Underwood's offerings. At this point I have it narrowed down to Underwood's + P 200gr GD, or the 185gr + P XTP....Thoughts
Thanks

Ken

[Rojo27]

I generally don't stray too far from Federal 230gr HST or 230gr Ranger T in my 45's (personal defense situations).

While I have a couple of the old 50 count boxes of Underwood's 200gr +P 45acp Gold Dots I've not shot it nor the 185gr +P XTP enough to give you an opinion. 

You can see a few gel test with the 200gr Gold Dots (flying ashtray) but enough for my comfort level and don't ever recalling seeing the 45acp 185gr +P XTP tested. 

Just curious what's got you moving away from 230gr HST? 

[Kenk]

Hey Rojo,
To be honest, I have been looking more closely at one of my favorite ammo manufacturers lately; which is Underwood. Much of this is because I have more time on my hands lately due to a recent knee replacement. In addition I am sold on Underwood's ammo for hunting, and was in hopes their carry ammo would foot the bill for my non-hunting needs. I am coming to the realization that sticking with the tried and true ammo for carry is likely the way to go, while utilizing  Underwoods technology for my hunting needs. Ultimately I was in hopes that some of Underwood's offerings, E.g. Gold Dot, or XTP In +P, or +P+ would perform as well as the the industry's leaders such as Federal's HST, or others, however that is unlikely.
Thanks

Ken

[Trapper6L]

I can only attest to my own personal experiences and that of the local Border Patrol agents. The BPs target "animals" are of the 2 legged variety and will happily engage you in a fire fight. Some of the BP guys carry their own 45 ACPs. They prefer the old slow round vs any of the high velocity/performance rounds. Almost none carry the 357 Sig anymore due to lack of a fast kill and low penetration. Of those shooting the 45 ACP, all have moved to a RN lead bullet. Their position is pretty straight forward, it doesn't need any expansion, is hard to deflect in the brush, leaves a messy wound channel, penetrates most anything a drug dealer is going to wear short of body armor. I don't see the need for a performance bullet when shooting a 45ACP as the big slug is pretty much designed as a human gitter anyway. I don't see the need for anything special if you are using as a backup for hunting. As a primary weapon, it's a poor choice unless where you are hunting you can get close, real close. While hard to walk over a 45 ACP, it's no long range weapon. The 10mm is a much better choice for hunting. I've studied the 45 round a lot and for my purposes, the 200gr bullets make more sense and cover more bases. While there's not a lot of velocity gains with a 45ACP going from 230gr to 200, there's enough there for a little flatter shooting without giving up any power of the cartridge. A 45ACP is about equal to a 40SW using the same 180+/- bullets. I see no advantages of the 185gr in a 45ACP.

[TODDXUSMC]

I don't know everyone's thoughts on carrying reloads but I don't do it. That said I came across some Vitavouri data that really increases velocity in standard pressure .45acp, putting it in the.45Super category. The powder they used was N105. Last fall I decided to test their data. I used their max load in standard pressure .45 data and here's what I got:
I tested the loads, the 185 and 230 were within 10 on extreme spread, the 200 grain lhcswc were a bit worse at 18 on extreme spread. No signs of excessive pressure, no case bulges or bad primer indicators.
The 185 averaged 1260fps, the 200 avegred 1210fps and the 230 golden saber averaged 1074. I was getting alot of unburnt powder flecs inside the chrono body 4 ft out, so these while standard pressure, there would be no point in increasing the powder.
Primers were Fed 155
Brass was R-P

Im guessing similar results in a 5" barrel due to the unburnt powder flecks. Probably wouldn't have to go to a max powder loading to still get the velocity and have a more complete burn. Maybe sp brass would help with a srm primer to ignite the powder. Either way the results I chronod puts the.45 in a whole new league of performance, definitely for hunting; maybe for SD.
The weapon used was a steel frame MK IV with a 6" magnaported WC stainless match barrel, it had the standard 1911 non ramped profile. Even without the extra case support of a ramped barrel there were no bulges of any cases. 10 shots total with each bullet weight were chronographed .
Data can be found on the Vitavouri phone and iPad app.


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[Kenk]

Thanks folks, the G30 is only for carry, not hunting. I will stick with Federal's 230gr HST, as it is a proven load for this use
Thanks again

Ken

[Graybeard]

Ken, have you looked into the relatively new 230gr Speer Gold Dots for short barrels? They did an average of 14" of penetration in clear gel and all expanded perfectly at the Lucky Gunner Labs testing. I carry them in my Kimber Ultra and have found them not punishing to shoot at all. Pretty easy for quick follow up shots out of a small, light, gun. They seem to be using a flash suppressed powder, no huge fireball at night.

They would seem to be perfect for your G30.

[Kenk]

Thanks Graybeard, will give them a look

Ken

[SPDSR]

First, the XTP is 30-year-old bullet technology that performs poorly in a defensive role. Underwood markets it for those folks that know little about ballistics and assume the greater velocity is more significant. Same with their Nosler line. Not to mention Underwood's QC can be varied, and they do not seal their primers or cases. Gold Dot, HST, Ranger Bonded, etc. have sealant applied and solid QC.
XTP's have some value in hunting, but there are much better options for serious defense.

As for the comment on the Border Patrol- that was completely innacurate and ridiculous.
A) CBP Agents are not authorized to carry personally owned primary handguns. They only carry the issued sidearm, currently the HK P2000 .40. Even personally owned backup handguns are very restricted. None of them are allowed to or are carrying 1911's or .45 caliber anything. B) Agents can only use issued ammunition, not their own hardcast ammo lol.

CBP is currently performing a rigorous trial for a new handgun, which like the current one will be the ONLY primary handgun they can carry. The ONLY caliber being considered and tested is 9mm. The ONLY 2 ammunition types being considered and tested are the 124+P Gold Dot, and 147 Ranger Bonded.

[Kenk]

Hey SPDSR, regardless of your apparent dislike for Underwood's product line, I really like their stuff. As for  XTP's 30 old technology, it has served me well for 10mm deer hunting. As you mentioned, yes, there are likely better bullets for hunting than the XTP
Thanks

Ken

[SPDSR]

It's not that I dislike Underwood, it's just a significant amount of their product line uses inferior bullets that they market as great defense loads. Gold Dots are the only serious defense bullet they offer, and in some instances they diminish the effectiveness of those by putting more juice behind them than they can handle to perform well. Other small loading companies tend to do the same things. They know this, and intentionally cater to people that don't. I find Underwood to be a good option for animal defense loads and handgun hunting loads, but those are different parameters entirely.

[Kenk]

Absolutely, Thanks man!