200gr Federal HST 10mm - Gel test

[SPDSR]

Well let me help settle this really good conversation. I would not mind getting some underwood for barrier testing, what type of barrier are we talking? Here I fired 45colt through board into gel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR-Ntgvx2mw&t=4s

The barriers used for industry standard testing. Sheet metal, auto glass, etc.

[cwlongshot]

Well fellas I can attest that Win 175 gr Silver tips SUCK!!!!! I tried to dispatch a hog here on the farm and had to shoot it 5 times point blank in the head before it was down where we could cut it!!!!!!!

That sux!!  Something MUST have changed!!  These where my GO TO bullets for the 10!!  My load is stout pushing 1300+ and I have shot thru spines on whitetails quartering... Exits are usually, quarter to half dollar in size.

I have only a few left as I haven't seen any offered in 5ish years.

CW

[sqlbullet]

Head shots on a hog are notoriously difficult even in the best of circumstances with a high powered rifle.  I personally don't take any pistol caliber HP bullet designed for personal defense failing to head-shot a hog as a sign of an ammunition failure.

https://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2009/02/02/shot-placement-on-hogs-arguments-against-the-head-shot/

Even heart/lung shots on a hog are a much higher bar than personal defense against two legged predators.  Hence the common advocation of 200 grain XTP or hard cast bullets for hog hunting.  And that advice assumes heart/lung shots.

[Kenk]

Great article on hog headshots, really puts things in perspective

Thanks sqlbullet!

[The_Shadow]

I have personally seen a 22LR ricochet of a big hogs head (between the eyes) at point blank range!
I took a 480 pounder with my 30-30 130 grain HANDLOAD placed right behind the right ear and the bullet wound up inside the left shoulder, he dropped right there, fell over like Arty Johnson on that tricycle on Laugh In back in the day!

[Kenk]

It's interesting you mentioned the behind the ear shot. I has a rabid coon that keep eating our bird food. Living on the edge of a small rural Minnesota town, I wasn't comfortable dropping it with the 22, so I broke out the RWS pellet gun (1000 FPS) would bounce these hunting pellets off its forehead and didn't phase the darn thing, would just run into the bushes and was back at in 5-10 min. After 3 or 4 times I did a quick Google search, they said to just popem behind the ear. When he returned I gave it a try, dropped Mr frothy face on the spot, as well as letting off this horrible blood curdling scream as it went down 😀

[cwlongshot]

A 300g bullet form my LC never had any problems with head shots on oinkers...
 
This is a video. Its a lil screwy.




 


Then there is the "shield" found on some of them.





CW

[sqlbullet]

I have personally seen a 22LR ricochet of a big hogs head (between the eyes) at point blank range!

Me too.  Butchering on the farm when I was lad we learned to just stun and bleed them.  I am sure the PITA folks would have been mortified.  Pork was tasty though.

[Rojo27]

I have personally seen a 22LR ricochet of a big hogs head (between the eyes) at point blank range!
I took a 480 pounder with my 30-30 130 grain HANDLOAD placed right behind the right ear and the bullet wound up inside the left shoulder, he dropped right there, fell over like Arty Johnson on that tricycle on Laugh In back in the day!

If you don't feel like tracking them any, this is the right spot.  Either just behind and below the ear or
midway between ear and shoulder gets the spine.  In my experience, either will anchor them on the spot.  Wild or feral hog is anything but a joke!  They're tuff as hell with a nasty disposition to boot. 
They are very often able to absorb a lot of damage and cover crazy distances with fatal wounds.

[The_Shadow]

I have personally seen a 22LR ricochet of a big hogs head (between the eyes) at point blank range!

Me too.  Butchering on the farm when I was lad we learned to just stun and bleed them.  I am sure the PITA folks would have been mortified.  Pork was tasty though.

Yep that's what I was doing helping a friend butcher his hog, when he tried to put the round between the eyes.  We did capture the blood in a pot to start the process of making what we call Red Boudin. (Blood Sausage).  After it was done bleeding out, that pot was taken inside and started cooking it in preparation...
The interesting thing about his hogs was that he worked for a dairy and his wife worked for a grocery, they got all sorts of stuff to slop the hogs with, dairy products, breads, vegetables, fruits, etc..  Those were some fine hogs and right taste too! 

[Florida Yankee]

I liked how uniform the expansion was.

I was not a fan of the pedestrian speed. For me a 10mm is all about over penetration. If I want a slower less penetration round, I'll go back to my .45

In a 10mm I'm looking for horsepower and not an undertuned restrained back performance.


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[REDLINE]

I highly disagree with you. The Underwood Gold Dots generate huge energy, and they dump it all, very quickly. They expand farther than normal, but wound channels are massive and the bullets still hold together.

You must be wanting to keep the slugs on your mantle after they are pulled out of the bad guy.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[REDLINE]

"Dumping massive energy" is not a wounding mechanism in handguns. And if you're referring to some gel testing, you'd have no way of knowing what the wound channels in living tissue look like. Gel does not convey that information. The overdriven bullets typically penetrate less and over-expand yielding a diameter smaller than if they were fired within their design. The net result is a decrease in both of the primary objectives of penetration depth and expanded diameter. Furthermore, at these velocities the GD is barely holding together, so if fired through barriers it would be more likely to fail.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

All else being equal, a higher energy bullet does equal greater tissue wound damage, all gel testing aside. This is obvious when comparing a 38 Special wound track to a 357 Magnum wound track.

You mentioned over-expanding;  I look positively at that considering the ridiculous expansion the bullet achieved through some amount of wound channel before over-expanding.  I'm not calling that a better scenario overall, but no worse either.

You mentioned barriers;  hollow points generally ball up and don't expand after hard barriers anyway so I don't see any difference.  And with a barrier like 4 layers of denim, expansion of hollow points is most commonly reduced allowing for more penetration.

Not aimed at you SPDSR, but what's really funny to me are the masses preaching over-penetration with 10mm Auto as a whole.  Of course those of us in-the-know simply pick the appropriate bullet weight/construction for the penetration depth we want, regardless the velocity.

[REDLINE]

Well fellas I can attest that Win 175 gr Silver tips SUCK!!!!!

Agreed.  I gave up on them well over 10 years ago before they were watered down to todays levels.  My reason is way to many of them failing to expand.  Never had any such issue with XTPs, Gold Dots, or Golden Sabers.