Charter arms

[dougx]

Has anyone converted a Charter arms 40S&W?I was wondering if the extracter system was long enough for the 10mm.

[sqlbullet]

It is the same frame they build the new bulldog 44 special on.  So, there should be plenty of reach.

[Vice]

I heard and interview on Guntalk with the President of Charter Arms.  He was saying that a 9mm is coming out soon.  And I believe he said a 40 was coming soon after that.

[sqlbullet]

I think they are here.  Buds is listing the item.

[Vice]

Good to know that I didn't dream it. 

[alwaysshootin]

Has anyone converted a Charter arms 40S&W?I was wondering if the extracter system was long enough for the 10mm.

Just because a manufacture makes a weapon for 40, does not mean it's fine to convert to 10MM! A Ruger, SP 101, or Gp 100, ok, IMHO to convert.  Personally, there is no way, I'd convert a Charter Arms! That's just me.

[sqlbullet]

Any reason why?  The difference in pressure between the cartridges, by SAAMI spec, is not really significant.  The general quality of a charter arms gun may be debated.

Ultimately for me the off-putting aspect is the cost of reaming.  Converting an auto costs me $35 at the local gunsmith to ream the chamber, then the cost of some springs and an EGW flat bottom FPS.

But a revolver costs $35 * number of shots.  For a 5 shot that is significant, a 6 shot more so.  That is my hesitation in performing a conversion on the charter or the taurus 405.  But, if I happened into one a the right price I would do so without safety concerns of actually shooting 10mm in the weapon.

[alwaysshootin]

Any reason why?  The difference in pressure between the cartridges, by SAAMI spec, is not really significant.  The general quality of a charter arms gun may be debated.

Two questions, one, when shooting side by side, the 10, and 40, do you notice a significant difference?

Two, you hit on it, the Charter Arms quality? I have an original 44 special, and recently ordered, a new, DAO, 38. I left the gun store, with a Smith 642. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should, and, I personally would not do it to a Charter Arms. Again, that's just me.

[sqlbullet]

Since we are in agreement on question two, I don't see a reason to respond.  The value proposition is questionable since your investment in conversion may rapidly wear out parts, and it is an un-recoverable investment as you have created a gun costing $600 that is worth $250.

In regards to question 1, the answer is obviously yes.

But your reasoning that this indicates a safety concern is flawed.  If I shoot a 5" 1911 in 45 ACP and a Officers 1911, the recoil in the second gun is markedly more pronounced.  But that does not mean the chamber experienced more stress.

From a pressure standpoint, any chamber that will support a 40 S&W and has sufficient length can be reamed to 10mm without serious concern.  The chambers are engineered to support 35K-40K PSI in average general service without failure and a 10mm will not exceed that when loaded to spec.

The 10mm generates additional velocity not through higher pressure, but by a greater initial case volume.  Larger case volume means the pressure declines more gradually as the bullet moves down the bore, resulting in higher velocity.

[alwaysshootin]

I'm not an engineer, and don't claim to know apple butter from shinola, all I have is experience. As far as any 45 ACP chambering, you are talking a third of the pressures of 40, and 10. So weapon size is mute.

  Every forum has their resident "authority" and on the Ruger forum years ago, I brought up, that I had heard the P90 was originally designed to have the 10MM, at least that is what I had heard. The resident, assured me, I was incorrect!  Because of the design, and how it was made, the P90, a monster, work horse, etc, etc, would not, could not, hold up,  to the 10MM, and there was no way possible, for the P90 to work as a 10MM. So, all I am saying is, not to mention what you have covered with converting a $259 firearm into a $1000 investment, I'm not going to convert a Charter Arms, or Taurus, for that matter, into a 10. If ever I make the conversion, it will be a GP 100. That's just me!

   The G20, and G21 are completely interchangeable! The G21 can be converted to 10MM with a barrel swap, and run. The G20 slide, as is the G29, compared to their counterpart, have heavier slides. Is there a reason? Glock thinks so.

I have multiple 1911's, and only one is in 10. Guess which one is the heaviest?

Like I said, I ordered a CA, and was not pleased with what I saw, and that was in a 38 special. Not sure if the 40,45,44 CA's are like the 38, but the 38, had a polymer trigger guard, and grip frame! I was not impressed.

[Vice]

This is a good discussion, with good information from both sides.

[dougx]

I have a gunsmith friend with a reamer and he owes a favor,so it won't cost me anything.I wouldn't think it would hold up to a steady diet of double tap,but it would make a nice size backup.I'm going to stop at a funshop to see if I can find one.Going to take a tape measurer with me to see if extracter is long enough.

[sqlbullet]

I own a reamer and have a gunsmith who "rents" it from me for shop credit.  If I hit one for the right price I would do it for the same reasons.

[Vice]

I would be surprised if extractor rod is as long as 10mm cases.  But should work with agressive pushing.

[sqlbullet]

Hard to say.  I would kinda be surprised if it didn't as the frame is the same as the 44 special which should eject 10mm fine. If it isn't it should be possible to adapt a rod from a bulldog 44 special.

Incidentally, running some numbers on 44 special, I am less concerned about who this gun would handle a diet of 10mm loads.  I don't think most users would load it with 200 grain bear loads.  If you compare the momentum of 155 grain 10mm loads to 240 grain 44 special loads, they aren't that far apart.  I bet that gun holds up pretty well to 10mm.