10MM Velocity Comparison-(3) Guns- 4 different barrel .

475/480 · June 21 2012 07:06:04 AM MDT

I put this on another forum and thought it should be here also. This will be an ongoing process.

Guns: Caspian 6" Custom , STI Perfect 10 , G20SF w/extra LWD 5.47" barrel.
Jacketed bullets: Nosler 135 HP, Nosler 150 HP, Nosler 180 HP, Hornady 200 XTP
Cast bullets: 190gr LFNGC, 215gr WFNGC
Powders: AA7, AA9, Blue Dot
Primers: Winchester WLP
Brass: Starline

*****Be SAFE and work up to theses levels in your guns*****

Bullet: Nos 135 gr OAL: 1.245"

Powder	Charge	*Pressure (psi)**	Caspian 6"	STI 6"	LWD 5.47"	G20SF 4.6"
AA7	12.0	24,110	1390
AA7	13.0		1496	1530	1446	1365
AA7	14.0		1558	1610
AA7	14.5					1455
AA7	15.0		1589	1673		1489
AA9	15.0	24,400	1293
AA9	16.0	29,800	1386	1384
AA9	16.5			1425
AA9	17.0	36,600	1476	1459
Blue Dot	12.0		1427	1332
Blue Dot	12.5			1403		1257
Blue Dot	13.0	24,400	1485	1447		1316
Blue Dot	14.0	26,800	1569			1385

Bullet: Nosler 150gr HP OAL: 1.250"

Powder	Charge	*Pressure (psi)**	Caspian 6"	STI 6"	LWD 5.47"	G20SF 4.6"
AA7	13.0		1405		1457	1343
AA7	13.5		1455
AA7	14.0		1522	1540	1483	1404
AA7	14.5			1583	1502	1443
AA7	15.0					1485
AA9	15.0gr	31,400	1327
AA9	15.5		1374
AA9	16.0	39,400	1410	1385	1353
AA9	16.5	44,290	1395	1402	1394
Blue Dot	11.5	27,200	1342		1250
Blue Dot	12.0	29,510	1374		1306
Blue Dot	12.5				1365

Bullet: Nosler 180gr HP OAL: 1.250"

Powder	Charge	*Pressure (psi)**	Caspian 6"	STI 6"	LWD 5.47"	G20SF 4.6"
AA7	11.0		1219
AA7	11.5		1272		1256	1200
AA7	12.0		1303
AA9	12.0		1093
AA9	12.5	32,100	1136
AA9	13.0	36,800	1180
Blue Dot	9.5			1081
Blue Dot	10.0gr			1145	1077
Blue Dot	10.5			1196	1156

Bullet: Cast 190gr FNGC OAL: 1.245"

Powder	Charge	*Pressure (psi)**	Caspian 6"	STI 6"	LWD 5.47"	G20SF 4.6"
AA7	11.0					1154
AA7	11.5					1214
AA7	12.0				1325	1225
AA9	12.0		1135
AA9	12.5		1177			1053
AA9	13.0		1212			1058
AA9	14.0			1263
AA9	15.0			1325
Blue Dot	8.0		1120
Blue Dot	8.5		1165
Blue Dot	9.0		1210

Bullet: Hornady 200 XTP OAL: 1.260"

Powder	Charge	*Pressure (psi)**	Caspian 6"	STI 6"	LWD 5.47"	G20SF 4.6"
AA7	10.0		1126	1146	1120
AA7	10.5		1168	1180	1164
AA7	11.0		1211	1188	1208
AA7	11.5			1268	1245
AA7	12.0				1301
AA9	12.0	38,200	1110	1112	1082
AA9	12.5	43,200	1145	1134	1096
AA9	13.0			1164	1122
Blue Dot	8.0		1061
Blue Dot	8.5		1102		940	924
Blue Dot	9.0		1191		981	963
Blue Dot	9.5					1040

Bullet: Cast 215gr WNGC OAL: 1.245"

Powder	Charge	*Pressure (psi)**	Caspian 6"	STI 6"	LWD 5.47"	G20SF 4.6"
AA7	11.0		1233	1238
AA7	11.5			1274		1181
AA7	12.0				1268	1231
AA9	12.0			1122
AA9	12.5			1146
AA9	13.0			1200

Original post updated to table form.
*Pressure data derived from Quickload estimates, not from measurement.

sqlbullet · June 21 2012 08:15:39 AM MDT

Thanks. This is good data. I have the first section reformatted as a table below. ~~I will work through the others today.~~

--Table placed in original post--

475/480 · June 21 2012 10:03:16 AM MDT

Thanks sqlbullet, I could not figure out how to do that. ${$default_huh_smiley}$
Sean

sqlbullet · June 21 2012 10:14:23 AM MDT

No problem. It is a little different, but a feature many forums either don't enable or don't have. I am going to post a how-to later in the questions/suggestions section.

The_Shadow · June 21 2012 12:52:56 PM MDT

Hey Thanks, for the data. I pushed the Hornady 200gr XTP with 10.5 grains of Blue Dot, CCI350, COAL of 1.260" which yieled 1180-1200 fps from my 5" 1006. This was based off Speer Data with their 200 FMJ testing with the Colt Delta Elite...

475/480 · June 25 2012 11:48:36 AM MDT

More loads added***6-25-12
This will be an ongoing process**
Guns used are Caspian 6" Custom , STI Perfect 10 , G20SF w/extra LWD 5.47" barrel.
**************Be SAFE and work up to theses levels in your guns***********
Bullet weights will be Nosler 135 ,150,180 gr HP's, Hornady 200 XTP, cast bullets 190gr LFNGC ,215gr WFNGC. 3 different powders at this time, AA7 ,AA9, Blue Dot . Primers are ALLWAYS Winchester WLP. Cases Starline.

Bullet----------Powder---------Charge-------Caspian 6"---------STI 6"--------LWD 5.47"---------G20SF- 4.6"
Nosler 135 gr - OAL= 1.245"""-------------------AA7-----------12.0gr----------1390--QL Pressure 24,110 PSI
""--QL Pr 29,830---AA7------------13 -------------1496 ---------- 1530-----------1446--------------------1365
""--QL Pr 33,900---AA7-----------14 -------------1558----------- 1610
""--QL Pr 37,700--AA7 -----------14.5-------------------------------------------------------------------------1455
""------------------AA7-------------15-------------------------------1673--------------------------------------1489
""-----------------AA9-------------15.0gr----------1293--QL Pressure-24,400 PS
-----------------AA9-------------16---------------1386--------------1384--QL Pressure-29,800 PSI
""-----------------AA9--------------16.5-------------------------------1425--QL Pressure-
""-----------------AA9--------------17---------------1476-------------1459--QL Pressure 36,660 PSI
""----------------Blue Dot----------12.0gr-----------1427-------------1332
""----------------Blue Dot-----------12.5--------------------------------1403--QL Pressure 24,400 PSI---------1257
""----------------Blue Dot-------------13--------------1485--------------1447--QL Pressure 26,800 PSI---------1316
""---------------Blue Dot-----------14----------------1569--------------------------------------------------------1385
Nosler 150gr HP- OAL 1.250"---Charge---------Caspian 6"---------STI6"--------LWD 5.47"--------------G20SF 4.6"
""-QL Pr 30,650--AA7-------------13.0gr-----------1405----------------------------------1457---------------1343
""-QL Pr 34,380--AA7-------------13.5--------------1455
""------------------AA7-------------14-----------------1522---------------1540-------------1483--------------1404
""-QL Pr 38,590--AA7-------------14.5----------------------------------1583--------------1502--------------1443
""-QL Pr 43,340--AA7-------------15---------------------------------------------------------------------------1485
""------------------AA9-------------15.0gr-----------1327--QL Pressure 31,400 PSI
""------------------AA9-------------15.5--------------1374--
""------------------AA9-------------16----------------1410-------------1385---------------1353--QL Pressure 39,400 PSI
""------------------AA9--------------16.5-------------1395-------------1402---------------1394--QL Press 44,290 PSI
""-----------------Blue Dot---------11.5gr------------1342---------------------------------1250--QL Press 27,020
""-----------------Blue Dot---------12-----------------1374---------------------------------1306--QL Press 29,510
""-----------------Blue Dot---------12.5------------------------------------------------------1365
Nosler 180gr HP- OAL 1.250"---Charge---------Caspian 6"--------STI 6"-----------LWD 5.47"-------------G20SF 4.6"
""-QL Pr 28,790--AA7------------11.0gr-------------1219
""-QL Pr 32,660--AA7------------11.5---------------1272------------------------------1256------------------1200
""-QL Pr 35,430--AA7------------12-----------------1303
""------------------AA9------------12.0gr-------------1093
""------------------AA9------------12.5---------------1136--QL Pressure 32,100 PSI
""------------------AA9------------13-----------------1180--QL Pressure 36,800 PSI
""-QL Pr 23,100--Blue Dot--------9.5----------------------------------1081
""-QL Pr 26,450--Blue Dot---------10.0gr-----------------------------1145------------1077
""-QL Pr 30,270--Blue Dot--------10.5---------------------------------1196-------------1156
Cast 190gr FNGC OAL 1.245"---Charge-------Caspian 6"----------STI 6"----------LWD 5.47"----------G20SF 4.6"
""-QL Pr 32,490--AA7-------------11.0gr------------------------------------------------------------------------1154
""-QL Pr 37,410--AA7-------------11.5---------------------------------------------------------------------------1214
""-QL Pr 38,480--AA7-------------12-----------------------------------------------------------1325-------------1225
""-----------------AA9-------------12.0gr-----------1135
""-QL Pr 36,440--AA9------------12.5-------------1177--------------------------------------------------------1053
""-QL Pr 39,100--AA9-------------13----------------1212--------------------------------------------------------1058
""-QL Pr 25,100-Blue Dot---------8.0gr-------------1120
""-QL Pr 28,200-Blue Dot---------8.5----------------1165
""-QL Pr 30,400-Blue Dot---------9------------------1210
Nosler 200 HP OAL 1.260"------Charge-------Caspian 6"----------STI 6"-------LWD 5.47"------------GS20SF 4.6"
""-----------------AA7------------11.5gr---------------------------------------------------------------------------1205
""-----------------AA9------------13.0gr----------------------------------------------------------------------------1085
""-----------------AA9------------13.5----------------------------------------------------------Compressed-----1149
""----------------Blue Dot--------10.0gr--------------------------------------------------------------------------1072
""----------------Blue Dot--------10.5----------------------------------------------------------------------------1108
Hornady 200 XTP OAL 1.260"---Charge-------Caspian 6"----------STI 6"-------LWD 5.47"------------G20SF 4.6"
""-QL Pr 29,880--AA7------------10.0gr-----------1126-------------1146--------------1120
""-QL Pr 35,500--AA7------------10.5--------------1168------------1180--------------1164
""-QL Pr 38,510--AA7------------11----------------1211-------------1188--------------1208
""-QL Pr 41,200--AA7------------11.5--------------------------------1268--------------1245
""-QL Pr 46,800--AA7------------12------------------------------------------------------1301
""-QL Pr 38,200--AA9------------12.0gr------------1110-------------1112--------------1082--QL Pressure 38,200
""-QL Pr 43,200--AA9------------12.5--------------1145-------------1134--------------1096--QL Pressure 43,200
""-QL Pr 44,400--AA9------------13-----------------------------------1164--------------1122
""-----------------Blue Dot---------8.0gr------------1061
""-----------------Blue Dot---------8.5--------------1102----------------------------------940-------------------924
""-QL Pr 26,900--Blue Dot---------9-----------------1191---------------------------------981--------------------963
""-QL Pr 31,270--Blue Dot---------9.5-----------------------------------------------------------------------------1040
Cast 215gr WNGC OAL 1.245"--Charge--------Caspian 6"----------STI 6"-----------LWD 5.47"------------G20SF 4.6"
""-QL Pr 40,810-- AA7-------------11.0gr-----------1233-------------1238
""-QL Pr 42,090--AA7-------------11.5--------------------------------1274--------------------------------------1181
""-QL Pr 49,520--AA7-------------12--------------------------------------------------------1268----------------1231
""-QL Pr 42,308--AA9-------------12.0gr------------------------------1122
""-QL Pr 46,740--AA9-------------12.5--------------------------------1146
""-QL Pr 53,600--AA9-------------13-----------------------------------1200
[/quote]

sqlbullet · June 25 2012 12:48:52 PM MDT

Tablized (and corrected from my previous post where some velocties were in the wrong column)

--Table placed in original post--

475/480 · June 25 2012 02:28:10 PM MDT

Looking good, thanks sqlbullet.

Sean

475/480 · July 12 2012 08:07:07 AM MDT

Can this be sticky'd.
I will be adding Quickload pressure data to all of the loads listed for the 6" Caspian barrel.

Sean

The_Shadow · July 12 2012 09:04:30 AM MDT

Yes its possible to make it a sticky, perhapse after you have the dada added then sqlbullet, could organize and add it to the nice table (very professional looking) then pin it. I am sure many would be interested to look at the pressure estimations, I know I would. Better than working completely blind!

It would be interesting to compare pressures for the 6" to the Glock 4.6" from the QuickLoads software...
The Glock 20 4.6" & Glock 29 is 3.78" barrels are more common so those estimations could benefit some people as well.

sqlbullet · July 12 2012 09:23:52 AM MDT

Sounds like a plan. Once the pressure data is posted, I will tablize and preview it, then amend the original post with the data and make it sticky.

475/480 · July 12 2012 10:27:07 AM MDT

It would be interesting to compare pressures for the 6" to the Glock 4.6" from the QuickLoads software...
The Glock 20 4.6" & Glock 29 is 3.78" barrels are more common so those estimations could benefit some people as well.
[/quote]

Pressures do NOT change with barrel length , the pressure peak happens in 30-60 MS (milliseconds)inside the chamber. This was very eye opening to me.

Sean

sqlbullet · July 12 2012 11:11:09 AM MDT

Quote from: 475/480 on July 12 2012 10:27:07 AM MDT
...the pressure curve happens in 30-60 MS (milliseconds)inside the chamber...

This should be amended to say the pressure peak, which is what I sure you meant. The curve continues until the bullet has left the barrel and the interior pressure is equalized with local atmosphere.

This I knew. Once the bullet starts moving the size of the chamber effectively becomes variable, as it is the space between the bottom inside of the case and the base of the bullet. Since that distance is very small, it grows very fast. While the powder may continue to burn and produce more volume of gas, it cannot keep up with the increasing volume of the chamber, and so pressure drops as soon as the bullet begins to move and continues to drop unless the bullet becomes stuck in the bore due to an obstruction.

This curve will have the same calculated values at a given point in time after ignition regardless of how much more barrel it must traverse. All that changes with a different barrel length is the point at which the pressure drops back to local atmosphere.

However, muzzle pressures do change, because the muzzle has moved both spatially in relation to the breech as well as in time in relation to the pressure curve. The closer to the breech the higher the muzzle pressure will be. And muzzle blast.

REDLINE · July 13 2012 06:41:57 PM MDT

Is peak pressure reached when a bullet first engages rifling in the barrel, or before?

sqlbullet · July 14 2012 08:54:31 AM MDT

Every gun is different, but as a general rule if you have a good leade, pressure will not return to the values reached in case. It will spike a little as the rifling is engaged, but usually not the peak.

If the bullet encounters something that halts or seriously retards it's travel (abrupt transition to rifling, for instance) then pressure may spike at that point. Similarly if you encounter a bore obstruction 15" down the barrel, peak pressure will occur at that point.

At least that is my limited understanding. I am just beginning my journey into internal ballistics.