10MM Velocity Comparison-(3) Guns- 4 different barrel .

[REDLINE]

Tater and Red....

Please disregard this as a cause.  It's the nature of the specific powders, and NOT the size of the granules.  Many other powders are this fine, and more so, with no similar issues reported.  If it were a real condition, it would be more prevalent than just isolated situations.  If it were, any powder that is small enough to fall through the flash hole would suffer similar inconsistencies.  There are lots, including some of the most revered powders ever used.

This exact reply is something I've been thinking/pondering as well.  Any other thoughts on that?

[DM1906]

Tater and Red....

Please disregard this as a cause.  It's the nature of the specific powders, and NOT the size of the granules.  Many other powders are this fine, and more so, with no similar issues reported.  If it were a real condition, it would be more prevalent than just isolated situations.  If it were, any powder that is small enough to fall through the flash hole would suffer similar inconsistencies.  There are lots, including some of the most revered powders ever used.

This exact reply is something I've been thinking/pondering as well.  Any other thoughts on that?

Flattened LPP's are a fact of life with full "magnum" rounds, in every caliber.  If you regularly load full pressure magnums, you're gonna see flat primers.  Extruded/mushroomed primers, well that's a different story.  If you use LPP's in full pressure .454's, they primers will extrude and fully fill the pocket.  Nearly the same with full pressure .41M and .44M loads.  The full power 10mm is in the same pressure neighborhood so, theoretically, should experience the same.

[nickE10mm]

I'm honestly still FLOORED that AA7 QL pressures are lower (in most cases) than respective AA9 pressures....  I LOVED AA7 when I used it (the metering, the charges, the versatility, the SMELL, the color... yes, mostly trivial) but I always stayed within current book loads so I never really got over 180gr XTP / 10.9gr level of power.  It was one of my first powders so I never pushed it. 

Baffled....

[475/480]

I was able to get to the range this weekend to shoot some of the Mountainmolds 230 gr LFNGC (73% meplat) in the STI 10 -6" bll and the Kimber Target II- 5" bll. I will try to post some QL pressure estimates later today.
I shot these at 25 yards off sand bags and most loads show good accuracy at 25 yards in both guns.
STI- 6" bll.
AA7-  9.0gr = 1046
AA7-  9.5gr = 1073
AA7- 10.0gr = 1127
AA9- 10.0gr = 954
AA9- 10.5gr = 988
AA9- 11.0gr = 1023
Blue Dot - 8.0gr = 983
Blue Dot - 8.5gr =1047
Blue Dot - 9.0gr =1079
Blue Dot - 9.5gr =1129** QL Est . = 42,700 PSI
Long Shot - 6.5gr = 1051
Long Shot - 7.0gr = 1099
Long Shot - 7.5gr = 1142
Kimber 5" bll
AA7-  9.0gr = 1003
AA7-  9.5gr = 1041 **QL  Est. = 34,700 PSI
AA7- 10.0gr = 1095 **QL Est. = 40,300
AA9- 10.0gr = 896 **QL Est. = 31,500
AA9- 10.5gr = 948
AA9- 11.0gr = 991**QL Est. = 40,900
AA9- 11.5gr = 1018 **QL Est. = 46,100
Blue Dot - 8.0gr = 920** QL Est. = 27,800
Blue Dot - 8.5gr = 998
Blue Dot - 9.0gr = 1028** QL Est. = 35,700
Long Shot - 6.5gr = 1011**QL Est. = 36,000
Long Shot - 7.0gr = 1070**QL Est. = 44,300
Long Shot - 7.5gr = 1107**QL Est. = 51,100 Difficult to figure out if this is accurate,primers were flat but not cratered


Sean

[sqlbullet]

Hey Sean....What is the significance of the ** on some of the loads.

[475/480]

I just use that to seperate it from the previous number.

Sean

Hey Sean....What is the significance of the ** on some of the loads.

[REDLINE]

I'm having a hard time buying into those QL estimates.  They just seem high to me.

[sqlbullet]

They are estimates...and are meant to be "conservative" to prevent guys from blowing up guns.  When in doubt, the designers designed it to report the higher end of the pressure deviance.

[REDLINE]

If that's true, and they're showing high numbers on purpose, IMO it's really not very intelligent.  Either that or they simply can't figure a way to make the estimates come out properly which IMO makes the program useless.

That would be like like a vehicle manufacturer purposefully setting speedometers to read 10 MPH over actual to prevent guys that speed from speeding, or at least speeding less MPH over any given posted limit.

At the end of the day it isn't doing anyone any favors.  And you always have to figure a certain percentage of the population is going to do stupid stuff.   

[475/480]

Added some Nosler 200 gr HP loads. Post #6

Sean

[The_Shadow]

Sean, I really have my doubts with the QL numbers?   I know that it is a math equation based on the user inputs and the data built into the program using specific power, bullets & primer and based on brass internals.
If those numbers are in fact real, then some of the commercial loads are off the charts...

If I would have been born rich instead of so good lookin' I would invest in a pressure testing rig just to see where we are at!

It would be nice to see some real world pressure numbers, based on the loads Kevin Underwood, Buffalo Bore and Mike McNett are selling to John Q Public!

[REDLINE]

Sean, I really have my doubts with the QL numbers?   I know that it is a math equation based on the user inputs and the data built into the program using specific power, bullets & primer and based on brass internals.
If those numbers are in fact real, then some of the commercial loads are off the charts...

If I would have been born rich instead of so good lookin' I would invest in a pressure testing rig just to see where we are at!

It would be nice to see some real world pressure numbers, based on the loads Kevin Underwood, Buffalo Bore and Mike McNett are selling to John Q Public!

AMEN!

[REDLINE]

Added some Nosler 200 gr HP loads. Post #6

Sean

Lookin good!

I see you got that 11.5gr AA7 load right at a nice Norma spec level from your G20SF (4.6" barrel), hitting 1205.  Did you use a Magnum LP primer in that one?

I think right around 14.0gr of AA9 should do about equal.  At 14.0gr of AA9 I had a hard time getting any lower than 1.263" (COL) without crushing an XTP nose.  That's okay though since Glock magazines handle 1.263".  I've been meaning to try it while seating and crimping separately, just haven't got that far yet.

[The_Shadow]

Redline, I tested my new G20SF using 13 grains AA#9 Hornady 200XTP, see results here http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/10mm-200xtp-13-0-aa9-test/

[REDLINE]

LOL, I just came from there.