Some recent Chronograph videos. DoubleTap, Underwood (improved 200's) BB

[DM1906]

Here is a picture of some Double Tap, 200gr hard cast  posted on the  cast boolits forum. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=166926

How in the HE double hockey sticks did that get past?  I read the thread, and I can't believe anyone would even entertain the idea this happened AFTER it went into service.  That's a bad bullet, without ANY doubt.  Cold mold, whatever, it left DT that way.  Mike owes free ammo for a year, after that mess.

[harrygunner]

I have some DT hardcast made about five years ago. Looked decent back then. If only they kept doing what they started out doing.

Fortunately, there's Underwood.  I bought some of his 200gr XTP rounds.

For Kevin's sake, we are going to have to suggest he change his warning on his website and boxes. He names Colt and uses the words "complete lack of support".  Better if he states some barrels do not meet his requirements or some other opinion.

[Intercooler]

Maybe only 290 degrees of unsupported (Delta on the left) 

[REDLINE]

That's insane.

[DM1906]

I have some DT hardcast made about five years ago. Looked decent back then. If only they kept doing what they started out doing.

Fortunately, there's Underwood.  I bought some of his 200gr XTP rounds.

For Kevin's sake, we are going to have to suggest he change his warning on his website and boxes. He names Colt and uses the words "complete lack of support".  Better if he states some barrels do not meet his requirements or some other opinion.

They (Underwood) are dead-on accurate with that statement/advice.  The support issue warning is unique to the DE.  Sure, there are "less supported" chambers, but none like the DE.  Intercooler's pic is not a cartoon.  If there ever was a "complete lack of support", that's it.

[harrygunner]

I'm looking at this from the point of view of a business owner. My company has never been sued, but it is in a sensitive industry where product liability must be carefully managed.

Given that the warning is an absolute statement, it's indefensible and could be viewed as demeaning or slanderous.

Underwood is a small company and can't afford large legal fees. This won't go to court. Colt would likely send a letter and Kevin would simply change the wording.  It would be better to state the specified barrels do not meet Underwood requirements or some other wording of company policy/procedures.

Every time I read that warning, it brings up this concern in my mind and I simply want to make sure one of our favorite vendors stays safe.

[Intercooler]

    You do realize Kevin sells Delta specific ammo? That should cover his bases on anything dealing with a Colt. I don't know many Lawyers that would want to fight a case against a MFG when they have such warnings on other ammo but also carry a specific product line tailored to one specific pistol. It's like trying to protect an idiot from himself and stands on it's own.

      Everything I read here seems to want Kevin to go backwards on his 10mm. McNett and Buffalo Bore to the best of my knowledge put no warnings or have seperate line for the Deltas. Which is worse?

[REDLINE]

How is staying at the advertised 1250fps for 200XTP, while not erringly going beyond to 1300fps, downgrading?

[Intercooler]

Are you basing it being dangerous or bad on 1300 FPS like a speed limit? The Armscor 180gr that split on me and showed flattened primers were around 1200-1250 FPS. I just look at my brass and some people measure the cases with a micrometer.

[REDLINE]

In regard to 800X, yes.  Compared to other ammo, no.

[DM1906]

I'm looking at this from the point of view of a business owner. My company has never been sued, but it is in a sensitive industry where product liability must be carefully managed.

Given that the warning is an absolute statement, it's indefensible and could be viewed as demeaning or slanderous.

Underwood is a small company and can't afford large legal fees. This won't go to court. Colt would likely send a letter and Kevin would simply change the wording.  It would be better to state the specified barrels do not meet Underwood requirements or some other wording of company policy/procedures.

Every time I read that warning, it brings up this concern in my mind and I simply want to make sure one of our favorite vendors stays safe.

As Intercooler said, I don't think they have anything to worry about.  The picture speaks a thousand words.  If Colt could prove the statement untrue, perhaps they'd have something.  It's only libel if it's untrue, or maliciously damaging with no evidence to substantiate the statement.  Many products make similar statements.  If Underwood only stated to not use the ammo in a Colt DE, a lot more shooters would do it anyway.  Giving a very specific reason may make a shooter take a look, knowing what to look for.  Sounds like MORE responsible, rather than LESS.  Ammunition is a dangerous business, and things still go wrong under the best of circumstances.  Underwood is only warning against a dangerous potential, and giving a specific reason for it.  They'd be more likely sued if they only warned to not use the ammo in specific pistols, alone.  To say consumers shouldn't use the product in "some" firearms would be wholly irresponsible.  Colt isn't suffering any damage.  However, they might if the wrong ammo blew up one of their guns.  Colt only specifies they warrant use with commercially available ammo.  They don't specify which ammo shouldn't be used.  Perhaps they should?

[harrygunner]

FYI, Kevin will be changing the wording of the warning.  He said once he read the warning, he got my point.

In some ways, businesses need to be like the "gray man" mentioned in self-defense discussions.  Avoid unnecessary issues. Wastes time if not money.

[Intercooler]

The crazy thing is the other guys put nothing.

[harrygunner]

The issue wasn't about having a warning or not. I think a warning is good.

The issue was the wording of the warning. Kevin is simply going to change it to something that makes the point without the hyperbolic phrasing.

[Intercooler]

That's what Armscor did. DoubleTap and BB don't have anything on the box or website.