Aftermarket Barrel Quality, or lack thereof...with pics.

[REDLINE]

I was going to post this from where I had left off here -  http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/damn/  But it is really a topic that I felt should start fresh.

From the other thread it was pointed out how the throat in my brand new Storm Lake Barrel (6.02" for a G20, never been used yet) was off center.  I got better pics now showing it more clearly as pictured below. 

One thing I'm wondering is if other's aftermarket barrels by any manufacturer show similar or different inconsistencies from how they should be.  I'm also wondering if these types of issues are causing some folks to see high pressure signs where other's don't with the same model barrel(s), and if one doesn't know why a particular aftermarket barrel they own is showing unexpected pressure signs maybe a peek down the barrel would shed some light (although an extra tight throat or bore wouldn't be noticeable to the naked eye if that were the case).

If it matters to anyone, or for direct comparison to anyone elses aftermarket barrel, the pics below are generally targeting where the throat meets the lands.  My barrel has 6 lands.  The first pic is of the land that starts just right of the barrel hood, with the continuing pictures showing the lands in order clockwise around the bore.














A couple additional picks of the same Storm Lake barrel looking through it end to end;






Not really for direct comparison, but for what it's worth, pics of my stock G20 barrel posted in the same fashion;














A couple additional picks of the same stock G20 barrel looking through it end to end;






As mentioned earlier above, I haven't put a single round through this barrel yet.  What I do know is that all factory ammo I have, along with a number of my own handloads, drop into it cleanly with no resistance whatsoever.  Though of course it doesn't have the built in slop of my stock G20 barrel chamber.  At some point I'll find out how it actually shoots.

I'm curious to know how any of your aftermarket barrels may be machined wrongly.  I suspect most people never look to know.  Besides that, any thoughts/questions/comments are welcome and encouraged.

[DM1906]

That has to be the absolutely worst example of machine work I've ever seen in a modern barrel, of any brand.  I don't have a SL barrel, so I can't compare.  My aftermarket barrels are true, and have a mirror finish bore, new and old.  If it were mine, I'd not put any lead down that nasty, and send it back.  Their reputation is not represented by what I see in your pics.  How this got by QC is just crazy.  That barrel is ugly, and will never clean up.  Many shooters may not look that close at their barrels, placing all their trust in the brand they bought.  I've always inspected mine very closely, and have returned only one rifle barrel for tooling marks in the chamber.  Judging by the looks of the work in your barrel, I'd bet there are a lot more at least that bad.  The tooling in the grooves alone is enough to reject it.  That is a ballistic investigator's dream.  Sorry to ramble on, but it is what it is, and it is just wrong in many ways.

[REDLINE]

Judging by the looks of the work in your barrel, I'd bet there are a lot more at least that bad.

I'ld encourage others to closely inspect their own barrels by any aftermarket manufacturer (Storm Lake or otherwise) and post here what they negatively might find.  I wouldn't have even thought to inspect mine to the extent I now have except for ii open bringing up his issue where he can't get most factory 10mm loads to fully seat in the chamber of his Storm Lake barrel in this thread -  http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/damn/

The tooling in the grooves alone is enough to reject it.

Storm Lake broach cuts the grooves, where as KKM button rifles theirs,...  Any further thoughts, keeping in mind the pics I posted are magnified, thereby grossly magnifying the tooling marks in the grooves?

Sorry to ramble on, but it is what it is, and it is just wrong in many ways.

Not at all.  Glad you chimed in.

Maybe it's good I haven't fired any ammo through this new barrel yet, and should seriously consider sending it back to be fixed or replaced.  Not sure yet.  What I really LIKE about it is the EXCELLENT chamber support which is the main reason I wanted the Storm Lake barrel in the first place.  Uuuuuugh.

[sqlbullet]

I agree it is ugly and not an example of great workmanship.

And I really doubt it is going to shoot very well.  That throat is likely to get the bullet slightly off center in the rifling, which will not be conducive to great accuracy.

But I would shoot it first.

While I agree that the barrel shows more machine marks than expected, it isn't entirely fair comparing it to a hammer rifled glock barrel right below.

[Yondering]

Redline - first off, your pictures are excellent, much better quality than mine. Nice work.

I illustrated one of your pictures, to point out the problems I see with that barrel. Of course, my comments are in comparison to a perfect barrel; you could expect some of these issues in most barrels.



Here are some pictures of my Lone Wolf G20L 6.6" threaded barrel. This one started out too tight, so it got lapped and polished, and shoots really well now. You can see that the leading edge of the lands is slightly rounded from fire lapping though; this is why you don't want to lap a barrel any more than you have to. You can see where the bore in my barrel had some machining marks, that have been partly smoothed by lapping, and subsequent firing (a lot of rounds, mostly cast). This throat is very slightly offset, but not enough to be an issue, and is what I considered acceptable for a $100 barrel. You would not be able to clean up the throat in that SL barrel to look like this, it's too far out of alignment.

[sqlbullet]

Good pics Yondering.

[REDLINE]

Thanks Yondering for pointing out everything really specifically.  After further thought this morning I'm thinking I want something done to correct the the issue.  And like you said;   You would not be able to clean up the throat in that SL barrel to look like this, it's too far out of alignment.  That said, I tend to agree and figure they would have to send me a new properly machined replacement.

I'm going to send them an email with pics and see how they react.  I'll post their reply in this thread.  In Storm Lake terminology my barrel is refered to as Defective (out of specification).  Their written policy for Defective items is;  Buyer must notify StormLake of a defective product within 7 days of receipt of product.  The barrel has been in my possession since UPS delivered it 8-29-12 at 3:18pm.  I'll be very curious to see how they react to that alone toward any remedy whatsoever.

In this case as it is, I'm kind of glad I haven't fired a single round through the barrel yet.  Not that I know if it would really matter or not.

[Yondering]

Hopefully they stand behind their work and replace your barrel. Regardless of their company policy, you owning the barrel since August didn't change the quality of that barrel; they should make it right.

I wonder if they are chambering their barrels in a lathe, with the barrel indexed off the outside rather than the bore? That would explain the misalignment, and would indicate the bore isn't completely centered in the barrel (this is fairly common).

[REDLINE]

I hope so too.  Just sent a thorough email with the pictures off to them (cordial and polite) minutes ago.  I'll keep the thread posted on what happens as I find out.

[REDLINE]

Got an email from Storm Lake today saying;  "If you would like I can send you an RMA and have the barrel returned to us to be evaluated and repaired or replaced if necessary."

So I agreed and we'll see what happens.

[The_Shadow]

Redline what yondering pointed out was exactly what I was mentioning in the other thread before I even saw the pictures. 
Great details Yondering in you explaination!  Great job!
The markings on the brass that ii open posted clearly showed that he experienced the same in my opinion. [Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 09:09:09 PM]

The pictures of your barrel you posted in the other post I commented on this refreing to severl views [Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 07:53:16 PM] 

Your pictures have been a clear example of poor machine work, sorry it was yours.  Hopefully StormLake will fix this situation to your satisfaction.  Good luck!

[The_Shadow]

BTW, I just had a closer look into my StormLake 10mm & 40S&W barrels for my G-29, they are very pristen compared to Redline and ii opens examples.  However these were made Sep 2007, tooling is great but I don't think my camera will capture that... :'(

[REDLINE]

Good luck!

Thanks The_Shadow.  Also, I realize you did point out the shortcomings in the other thread, which I understand much better now and have even better pictures now that spell it out really clearly.  Hopefully Storm Lake sends me the RMA today (24th) so I can get it sent out to them.

[REDLINE]

Well, they did send it today.

The email read;  Please follow the instructions below in order to process your return for problem resolution.

1) Please complete a return form and describe the issue.  Be sure to clearly write your return address, telephone, and email address on the return form.  You can download a pdf return form at www.storm-lake.com/support by selecting the Returns & Exchanges button.
2) Please include a copy of your purchase receipt from an authorized StormLake dealer.
3) Please ensure that the product is properly packaged and insulated to ensure that the product is not damaged in transit.  Improperly packaged products that are damaged in transit are not covered under the product warranty and will be returned to sender.
4) Your return authorization number is XXXX.  Please write this number on the outside of the package.


So I got the barrel and info together, packaged it up and sent it out.  Sounds like they'll receive it Monday 1-28-13.  So far so good.  Luckily I hadn't fired any ammo through the barrel yet, as at that point they consider it a used barrel and would then not take any responsibility for the barrel being defective.  I'm very happy they have chosen leniency with me in respect to me owning the barrel for a time well beyond their stated warranty period.

[wifecallsmegrumpy]

Redline, is there consumer protection rights that would normally apply here over and above the warrenty period ? I would have thought that a defective (Manufacturing fault) product would be covered under the equiliviant trade practices act and no amount of shooting would make the barrell look like yours.

Anyway good pick up and camera work...I am off to check my barrel...