Buffalo bore loads

Caflashbob · January 20 2013 03:19:19 PM MST

Not to lose buffalo bore any business as I bought 100 rounds of their 783 foot pound loaded ammo but I find I have 500 rounds of empty starline brass and 500 rounds of the Speer 180 grain bullets they used and would love to purchase some equivalent powder to load my own.

They mentioned flash suppression in their loads. Graphite?

Any help on an equivalent loading would be nice. I did write to them and ask to purchase a small qty but no response. Duh.....

Anyone get similar energy and velocity in a 5 inch barrel?

Bob

sqlbullet · January 21 2013 08:26:27 AM MST

Try a search here for Longshot data. You are going to be over book to get that velocity and energy, probably by about half a grain.

DM1906 · January 21 2013 10:45:06 AM MST

The "flash suppression" refers to the powder selection (which may include a custom formula), not something they "put" in it. Powders such as Longshot and AA9 are labeled "low flash" powders. I seriously doubt BB is using a custom formulated powder (cost prohibitive). Buffers can be used with a powder charge to reduce the flash of a high-flash powder, but the case capacity of auto pistol cartridges prohibits using them effectively (a smaller charge of faster powder will yield the same result with no flash, and more economically, at a cost of bullet velocity/energy).

Getting 783 FPE (1400 FPS) from a 180 gr. Gold Dot or XTP isn't difficult. All the loads, regardless of powder will be over published maximums, though. It's easiest with Blue Dot, but it's not hardly a "low flash" powder. Work up your loads carefully, whichever way you do it.

sqlbullet · January 21 2013 10:51:06 AM MST

Like DM1906, I would load Blue Dot, but as he says, it will have flash, which is why I suggested looking for Longshot.

AA#9 gets pretty close too. You will likely run out of case capacity with this powder before you make the desired velocity.

Caflashbob · January 21 2013 12:22:12 PM MST

The long shot is low flash from what I am reading?

What charge gets the equivalent power using the 180's and starline brass?

Any difference in results using different large pistol primers?

Thanks. I knew there would be experts 20 years after I bought my 10mm colt.

And I was correct.

Bob

sqlbullet · January 21 2013 12:52:27 PM MST

Search here seems to show about 10 grains. But again, that is over book. And Underwood calls out rampless designs as unsuitable for loads this heavy. If you gun is a Delta Elite I would be VERY wary of exceeding book data.

DM1906 · January 21 2013 12:58:50 PM MST

Primers DO make a difference, so be sure to rework loads from the start when using different primers (or any component change, for that matter).

Hodgdon/Longshot shows a starting load of 8.5 gr. (1221 FPS, 31K PSI), and a max load of 9.5 gr. (1287 FPS, 34.6K PSI), C.O.L. 1.260", with no specified primer, and a Sierra JHC bullet.

The listed pressures indicate some room to increase, but you'll be on your own, as a handloader. If you are working them up without a chronograph, you'll have no way of actually knowing what you have. Also understand that published velocities by commercial suppliers are very often optimistic, in that you won't actually see what they say you will. They test their loads in a very controlled environment, often with equipment you won't be handling in the field, such as a stationary test barrel machine. A typical test barrel for auto-loaders is 5", but it isn't likely they are shooting the same gun you are.

DM1906 · January 21 2013 12:59:26 PM MST

Quote from: sqlbullet on January 21 2013 12:52:27 PM MST
Search here seems to show about 10 grains. But again, that is over book. And Underwood calls out rampless designs as unsuitable for loads this heavy. If you gun is a Delta Elite I would be VERY wary of exceeding book data.

Yeah. What he said....

EdMc · January 21 2013 01:52:54 PM MST

Just for an example I got smileys with 9.0 gr of Longshot behind 180 XTPs in my Colt Delta. Primers were WLPs as I remember. Chrono avg ~ 1260 fps.

Turo · January 21 2013 03:49:53 PM MST

Quote from: EdMc on January 21 2013 01:52:54 PM MST
Just for an example I got smileys with 9.0 gr of Longshot behind 180 XTPs in my Colt Delta. Primers were WLPs as I remember. Chrono avg ~ 1260 fps.

Just another reminder to be careful with hot loads in the Deltas. In my stock Glock 20 barrel, I got up to 10.2gr (this is over max FYI) and still didn't have any smilies or flattened primers. Then again, 9.0gr only got me to 1200fps in the 4.6" barrel.

EdMc · January 21 2013 07:00:08 PM MST

[/quote]

Just another reminder to be careful with hot loads in the Deltas. In my stock Glock 20 barrel, I got up to 10.2gr (this is over max FYI) and still didn't have any smilies or flattened primers. Then again, 9.0gr only got me to 1200fps in the 4.6" barrel.
[/quote]

I got about the same fps in my 20SF as you (1190), but started seeing changes in the primers at 9.2 gr. What velocity did you get from 10.2 gr? Just curious, I never went above the 9.2.

Turo · January 22 2013 12:22:48 AM MST

Quote from: EdMc on January 21 2013 07:00:08 PM MST

Quote

Just another reminder to be careful with hot loads in the Deltas. In my stock Glock 20 barrel, I got up to 10.2gr (this is over max FYI) and still didn't have any smilies or flattened primers. Then again, 9.0gr only got me to 1200fps in the 4.6" barrel.

I got about the same fps in my 20SF as you (1190), but started seeing changes in the primers at 9.2 gr. What velocity did you get from 10.2 gr? Just curious, I never went above the 9.2.

At 10.2gr, I was right at 1290-1300 fps, but I decided it was too hot and just a slight overcharge could be not fun. Around 10.0 I averaged 1262, 9.8 to 10.0 were nearly identical, and going down .2gr every time, I lost about 20-30 fps each time.

It might be of interest to note that I'm using CCI 300 primers, and I understand that they are a little more stout than some others.

Caflashbob · January 22 2013 12:31:30 PM MST

I am a novice here and really appreciate the info.

The barrel differences I have heard of on other websites so I have a little background on this.

To avoid the smileys you mention a ramped barrel. What is on my delta elite gold cup now?

Thanks in advance. Looking for some longshot powder now.

I will probably not exceed the 9 grains anyway.

Unless I pick up a 1026 or a glock

sqlbullet · January 22 2013 01:16:36 PM MST

Unless you have an after market barrel and frame mods on a Colt 1911 it is NOT a ramped barrel and does not have proper support for MAX 10mm loads.

EdMc · January 22 2013 01:25:34 PM MST

I've never seen one of the Nat Match Delta barrels so I can't say. The link blow shows a photo of a standard Delta barrel that you can compare. The Delta barrel is on the left..........notice almost 120 deg non support at the lower part of the case. Did you have any problems with the Buffalo Bore ammo you bought? Did you chrono any of those fired to compare?

http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/bar-sto-delta-barrel/