Guns vs. Bears 2: Glock or .44 Magnum for Grizzly?

[38-40]

If I'm not mistaken the percentage of capsaicin was reduced several years ago seems like I had a can that was 10% now its 3%. Anyone else recall this?


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[sqlbullet]

If I'm not mistaken the percentage of capsaicin was reduced several years ago seems like I had a can that was 10% now its 3%. Anyone else recall this?


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This is a common mis-conception.

For years pepper/bear sprays were advertised based on the content of oleoresin capsicum.  These values would vary from 10-30% depending on the maker.

A few years back an act of congress placed the regulation of the ingredients of products advertized as bear spray in the purview of the EPA.  Today bear spray will have an EPA registration and associated numbers on the can, usually on the bottom of the front label.  The EPA noted when establishing regulating parameters that there could be a wide variance in the capsaicin/capcaicinoid content of oleoresin capsicum.  Therefore they change the measured active ingredient to be the actual capsaicin content independent of the oleoresin.  For bear spray it must be between 1% and 2%.

This change does not reduce the efficacy, but rather standardizes and improves that efficacy.

[Muskrat]

Sorry to make my first post a link, but I've been following this thread and thought this article was relevant:

https://craigmedred.news/2017/06/29/bear-spray-yes-or-no/

The theory in the article is that predatory bears approach with a much different mindset and physiology than a startled, defensive bear. Defensive bears are trying to gain as much information as they can...nose pulling in large quantities of air and eyes wide open; all very vulnerable to pepper spray. On the other hand, a predatory bear has already decided they're going to attack and comes in with nose and eyes in a protective orientation...imagine a bear going after the honey in a bee hive. They've already decided what they're going to do and are willing to accept some pain in the process. Not only does a bear in this attitude get a much lower dose of spray into the areas it affects (nose and eyes), but they've already anticipated and accepted that their contact will probably come with some pain.

I don't know if it's true, but it's an interesting theory.

On another note, I'll be taking any and all information that comes from WY Game & Fish with a grain of salt. They really want to sell grizzly trophy hunts, and one of the touted benefits is that by hunting bears, bears will learn to be afraid of people. This of course assumes that a bear can learn a lesson from dying...Regardless, WY G&F isn't above putting whatever spin on this they think will help them legalize trophy hunting for grizzlies.

[Kenk]

It totally makes sense

[Rojo27]

I'm far from a bear expert Muskrat but the article makes sense to me.

Welcome to the forum!

[4949shooter]

Speaking from experience (I have both been sprayed with OC spray in training and have used it on humans), the spray has different effects on different people.

Dark eyed people tend to feel the effects less. Levels on intoxication and adrenaline also effect the efficacy of OC spray. I am sure animals (while not intoxicated) do have various levels of adrenaline and determination that differ between other members of the same species.

In essence, what may work on one particular bear may not work on another.

[Kenk]

As well as how determined they are for a tasty lunch

[inv136]

The only way I would ever consider a Glock over a .44 magnum for Grizzly would be if Glock made a model chambered for .44 magnum. Even then, I'd prefer a .12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs for a Grizzly. Because, even with a .44 magnum, depending on how close the Grizzly is, you're probably going to end up being hors d' oeuvers for the Grizzly bear. For Brown bear and especially Black bear, a .44 magnum will probably be sufficient to deal with the bear. But, Grizzly bear, no. Unless it is a Grizzly bear cub. 

[Kenk]

I have read about Alaskan fishing guides that carry a 12 gauge with alternating ammo, first out some 00 buck to soften things up, and then slugs

[tundracamper]

I have read about Alaskan fishing guides that carry a 12 gauge with alternating ammo, first out some 00 buck to soften things up, and then slugs

When we visited a gun store in Homer, the guy behind the counter said his choice for bear was just that. I don't remember the brand, but the shotgun had two side-by-side magazines that fed rounds in an alternating fashion. He said he would load one with slugs and the other with buckshot. I guess it carried at least 11 rounds, maybe more.

[5pins]

G20 saves the day!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/299589237107193/permalink/685978508468262/

At this point we haven't spotted the moose yet but has seen the crows kick up, and less then a second after that you hear the roar, from our 12 o clock, and boom freaking 7 1/2 foot brown bear yards 10 yds away and full charge

[Rojo27]

G20 saves the day!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/299589237107193/permalink/685978508468262/

Thanks for sharing 5pins!  Hair raising encounter!
"Jimmy" must be a cool cat stand tall facing charging 800lbs+ Alaskan Griz which broke from ambush inside 10 yards, coolly draw G20 & plant two rounds (one to head, one to chest) ending the charge 10' or less from his face. 

[Kenk]

Absolutely kept his composure...Wow!

[Muskrat]

Interesting story. While I cary a Glock 20 for big furry things, and prefer it over all other handguns for that roll, I'd certainly bring a long gun if I was looking for a ten-hour-old moose carcass in grizzly country. Perhaps there were game regulations that prohibited doing so?

Regarding the Glock vs .44 debate...I see both sides, and both are valid. For me, a bear encounter is the very definition of close quarters combat, and a weapon that can be shot quickly and accurately is needed. I can shoot a Glock 10mm on target much faster than a large-bore revolver, so that's what I cary. I also cary bear spray in grizzly country, and it is my primary defense where conditions allow.

[blaster]

The only way I would ever consider a Glock over a .44 magnum for Grizzly would be if Glock made a model chambered for .44 magnum. Even then, I'd prefer a .12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs for a Grizzly. Because, even with a .44 magnum, depending on how close the Grizzly is, you're probably going to end up being hors d' oeuvers for the Grizzly bear. For Brown bear and especially Black bear, a .44 magnum will probably be sufficient to deal with the bear. But, Grizzly bear, no. Unless it is a Grizzly bear cub.

I thought that brown bears were bigger than grizzly bears. and the Kodiak bear is a larger sub-species of the brown bear. also polar bears are a relatively recent evolution of the grizzly. this info (polar - grizzly) came from a biologist friend who used to work as a naturalist on some of the Alaskan cruise ships.