Guns vs. Bears 2: Glock or .44 Magnum for Grizzly?

[Rojo27]

TFB video that dropped this evening.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/08/10/guns-vs-bears-2-glock-or-44-magnum-for-grizzly/

[sqlbullet]

Good video.

The interesting thing here is it is the same argument used to justify 9mm over 40s,&w.  Lots more control and more rounds in the smaller package make up for less energy.

Glock 20 would be my choice for defensive carry.  But I do have a Redhawk if I want a44.

[Rojo27]

Ruger RedHawk 44 mag is a very, very fine firearm.  I too enjoy the 44 magnum, mine is the far less refined and asthetically pleasing Raging Bull 6.5" barrel.  Although I enjoy shooting it, days of hunting/hiking carrying it literally become a pain.

These days the G20 & 200gr WFNGC hardcast fits the bill nicely when venturing off road in your neck of the woods (N.E. Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho).  Incredibly amazing, WILD, diverse and unbealivable beautiful region.  In trips to that area I've seen many bears (grizzly & black), bison, elk, moose, wolf (Yellowstone), deer, countess pronghorn & although haven't seen them in person yet, know cougar are present as well. 

Alaska is still on the bucket list!  Want to be able to give that trip the extended time, energy and focus that place demands.  Too many other irons in the fire at the moment...  BUT someday...soon.

[Sneed]

I've hunted on the Alaskan Peninsula several times and lived in AK for parts of 15 years. I've seen a few bears on the peninsula that make my .338 seem puny and would take a .375 JRS or the like if I ever did it again. My carry handgun when not carrying a rifle was always a Ruger Redhawk loaded with 320 grain very hardcast bullets, which have been used successfully on elephants. The thing to consider is that if you're forced to use a handgun against a griz you're going to be VERY close to it so the ability to shoot numerous times will be limited and the first shot is the only one you can be sure of getting off. So in my estimation a .44Mag, .454 Casull or comparable are the ways to go and the additional firepower stuck in the magazine of your 10 will be found along with your corpse. If you get more than one shot with a griz charging it's not going to be many more. Bigger is definitely better in that scenario and penetration rather than expansion is far more likely to be the main factor in putting one down. I can not even imagine a scenario where having numerous rounds available is going to be helpful although you might want at least one left to put under your chin if the griz gets to you.

If you were defending against a pack of wolves, something I've never heard of, then the large capacity 10 would be nice but I kind of doubt that's likely.

[Kenk]

Hey Sneed,
This sounds right on the money when it comes to an attacking bear, but would still feel better having a large mag of something slightly less powerful. There must be something to many Alaskan guides prospective when it comes to swapping out there 44mag for a G20

[gandog56]

While I think 10mm is one of the best all around rounds, if there's grizzlies around I want my 300 grain loads in my .454 Casull. This is one case where I DO believe bigger is better.

[blaster]

I love the 10mm but after recently shooting my .44 S&W 629 alongside my 10mm Witness, the 10mm felt like a .22!  ; I have no doubt that a single WELL PLACED 10 mm could bring down a brown bear but if I get the chance to go to Alaska, I'll be carrying the .44. like said above, in an attack situation its going to be close and quick. if I only get one shot, I want the bullet to weigh 300 grs. instead of 200 grs. besides, I am a lot more accurate with the 629 than the Witness

[Sneed]

Hey Sneed,
This sounds right on the money when it comes to an attacking bear, but would still feel better having a large mag of something slightly less powerful. There must be something to many Alaskan guides prospective when it comes to swapping out there 44mag for a G20

Oddly enough I can recall only one guide who carried a handgun in addition to his rifle and it was a .22 in case we came across ptarmigan or grouse. I suspect the others thought if they needed to backup the hunter they had a rifle for that purpose so a handgun was just extra weight. I do not recall ever discussing this so it's just an inference. Also remember though that most guides are not "gun" people, they're guides and their rifle is one of their main tools (along with binoculars and a spotting scope). If something was not sufficiently helpful to justify its weight then it simply was not carried. Thus, I'd be suspicious of a rumor that guides were swapping their 44s for 10s.

[Kenk]

Hey Sneed,
This is only what I have been told by a couple of friends that lived there recently, however, I have no idea of the validity to be honest

Ken

[Kenk]

This is an interesting article on Sirius Patrol, a 14-man Royal Danish Navy patrol, and their polar bear protection sidearm, the G20
Thanks

Ken

https://www.google.com/amp/s/laststandonzombieisland.com/2015/09/22/the-glocks-of-greenland/amp/

[Rojo27]

Another video along similar lines...

https://www.full30.com/video/fc1998e08f3bdcf23ae7ffbff03fe511

[Spudmeister]

Good video Rojo.  Thank you.  The guy makes more sense than most. 

I think we have to start with the fact that if you need to shoot a big bear with a handgun in defense, you are in very deep weeds.   There is simply no handgun that is proper for 1,500 lbs of charging anger.  But if that is all I could carry it would be something I shot well under great pressure.  If that is a double action revolver then that's what I'll carry (once upon a time that was the case).  But for the last 12 years my handgun world has been 99.9% Glock's.  I can run a Glock better than anything all the time.  So the choice is simple.  G20 or preferably a G40 with 200gr WFN hard cast bullets.  I have far better handguns for shooting bears but when life goes sideways my best odds are with a platform I can run in my sleep.  Throw in the overall versatility of the Glock platform and the decision is twice as easy.  If you are a single action guy and it's your platform then just get a big one you can master. 

Nobody talks about it much but if time is limited the speed of the draw becomes a life and death issue. 

Edit to add...  If it takes you 3 seconds to draw and fire on a bear that is 2 seconds away....  what you really need is to have your affairs in order.  Same thing when carrying a gun socially.  I have never been charged by anything but if time is at a premium a very fast under stress draw can make all the difference.  It is always better to have the gun in hand and sights lined up before the charge but I have grown too old for fairly tales.  If you flub the draw you die is the importance here and I have watched tons of guys flub draws in training classes where just a little stress was added.  Real world is not practice.

Just my 2 cents on a summer evening.

[Spudmeister]

So I made it to the range this afternoon.  Brought the G40 with the almost new 6" KKM aftermarket barrel.  Among other loads I shot the 200 gr Montana WFN bullet with 8.6 gr of Longshot (the KKM barrel left no smiles on the brass).  5 rounds chrono'd today averaged 1,290 fps.  It is an easy shooting in the G40 and very very fast recoil recovery considering it is a "big boy" load. 

It is still a pipsqueak compared to big angry toothy things but the bullet is ideal in profile (WFN) and toughness, heavy for caliber, moves very fast at nearly 1,300 fps and is quite easy to control with speed.  Not ideal but pretty good all things considered.  Hope to take a hog with this come May.

[Rojo27]

Hope to take a hog with this come May.

We hope you do too!  May is a long time away, hope you get the opportunity before then.

In SD situations against beasts with great weight (power), speed, and or ability to reorient the food chain with you on the lower wrung....  Deep penetration is preferable above most everything else....
Bet your bullet choice would go close to 3' in proper ordenence gel.  Very doubtful you could expect exact same against a wild animal but it'd be very good medicine and work well (assuming you get the drop) in the interim while companions are sharpening sticks and looking for rocks to throw😏.  I prefer the 200gr WFN hardcast for that job but wouldn't hesitate to carry your prescription where the wild things live. 

[Sobrbiker]

I'm with Spudmeister on this one.

I got a 5.5" Redhawk in 44M for a hunting defense sidearm a couple years ago. One buddy I hunt with a lot is a born and raised wheel gun guy, and even though I've been a more practical/tactical shooter his influence carried weight.
After a couple thousand rounds through the Redhawk, I'm ok with it. I got an RIA 10mm earlier this year and it shoots 200gr WFN's really well. While out with said buddy (who was present for a lot of my shooting the Redhawk), he watched me hammering targets with the 1911 fast and intuitively. Well enough that he was prompted to ask me "why the hell do you even bother with a revo if you shot like that with a 1911?!?!"

After looking further, my research leads me to believe (as I've always trained folks) that only hits count in a gunfight.

So everyone can say and do what they will, but the fact that I can draw and fire two mags (including a reload) out of my 1911 faster than I can draw the Redhawk and get 6 rounds on target (tested under stress by a twenty yard run to truck and back to firing position included), I'm gonna carry the 10mm.

And I will agree to disagree with the comment on this thread that "you are only guaranteed one shot".

Think about how you carry, the situation (will the encounter include a tumble before you can draw, is your strong side going to be injured, will you lose the gun on the first swipe of an attacking animal, etc, etc), and you may soon realize that which gun you can print a smaller group with, from support, taking time at the range, may become an argument you don't wanna hang your hat on.

How many of you practice support hand only, on the move? Practice means doing what you hate/are weakest with until you don't hate it anymore. Regardless of caliber/platform, the will to win and preparing for the worst is the foundation of the equation.

Oh, and think about a lanyard, unless you plan on giving up when the fight starts.