BE86, Autocomp or something else for 9mm Full Power loads?

[TORCHRIDER]

Hello guys, new member here. 
I am a seasoned reloader of about 30 years.
I currently have a few thousand 9mm 124 gr. Gold Dots and HST's.
I am wanting to clone the factory 124gr. +p  loadings from Speer and Federal.
I was considering AA#7, but have also read that folks are having success with BE86 and Autocomp.
What powder do y'all recommend I start with to reach full power 9mm 124gr. loads?
Any pet loads would also be appreciated to give me an idea of where the ceiling is.
Thanks in advance!

[The_Shadow]

TORCHRIDER, Welcome to the forum!  We just  so happen to have documented stuff that was factory loaded and also UW ammo in the 124 grain +P

BE-86 was recently shown by PCTECHDUDE
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-9mm-115gr-speer-gold-dot-jhp/msg75811/#msg75811

UW Nosler 124 +p+ was using AutoComp
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-9mm-115gr-speer-gold-dot-jhp/msg23042/#msg23042

Federal 124 HST +P
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-9mm-115gr-speer-gold-dot-jhp/msg20415/#msg20415

Understand that these are some upper level performance ammo and specific to what was found, you may wish to drop down and test lower to see how your firearm deals with the +P or +P+ levels.  Some 9mm chambers may not be rated for +P or +P+ ammo.

[sqlbullet]

I have loaded some BE-86 9mm loads.  I just used the Alliant data:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipePrint.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=124&shellid=23&bulletid=325&bdid=1215

[Rick R]

FWIW I tried BE-86 in an attempt to copy the Speer 125gr Gold Dot +P load.  I didn't get the accuracy I wanted.  I then tried Stephen Camp of Browning Hi Power fame's load with 6gr Unique under a 125gr XTP with good results. I backed up and worked up to the same load in once fired WCC or new Starline with 6.0 gr of Unique under a 125gr Gold Dot bullet. 

I don't know what the velocity is but they share the POA/POI as the Speer +P round in our five 9mm pistols.  I shot one from my 3.3" XDs 9mm into water jugs with penetration into the sixth jug and great expansion.  These are going to leave a mark if they hit someone.

I find muzzle flash with Unique to be a black / orange ball of fire that really isn't disconcerting to my vision in low light. 

YMMV

[TORCHRIDER]

Thank You for the info guys. The 9x19 guns I own should handle +p just fine. Beretta 92A1, Glock 19/17/34, M&P 9, CZ 75.

I have a question. Is the powder listed in the pull downs the actual powder used by the mfg. or is it a guess of possible powder types. I would work my way up to the charge listed, but just wondered if it is confirmed to be that powder at that load? As an example for the info below. Does that mean  underwood uses 6.2gr. of BE86 for that particular loading?

Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: 6.2gr BE-86*
* Off white flakes noticable in powder

[The_Shadow]

There are many powders that in 9mm that look alike and many I do NOT know for sure.
I will say that UW was using AutoComp in their +P+. I studied this for a year because at the time I didn't have any AC powder to compare.
I asked some locals if any one had any because it is what I suspected it to be with my study and research.  A guy met me on the side of the road, in the rain on his way home and handed me a small container of what he said was AC powder.  Side by side it was a match.

So having two of the UW 124's I replaced the powder exactly after the documentation was done in one of them, sent them back to Intercooler to retest see his results below...

November 30, 2013
Underwood 124gr +P+ Nosler EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1366, 1385, 1369, 1397, 1370, 1381, 1380. Average = 1387 FPS/ 530 LBS

UW after documentation put back together:
February 22, 2014 Test Underwood 124gr +P+ Nosler Eaa Limited 4.75" 1397 FPS/ 537 LBS

February 22, 2014
Shadow's 121gr Zero +P+ Auto Comp 6.4gr's (Underwood 124gr load)... wait for it.....
EAA Limited 4.75" 1376 FPS/ 521 LBS

Now for BE-86 several guys have tested it in 10mm myself included and also in 9mm as well.
Just understand that their test is using same firearm barrel lengths as they record the velocities.

PCTECHDUDE decided to document his Federal 124 HST ammo.  BE-86 is a Newer powder from Alliant and it was developed with a flash suppressant.

Geeman's results for 9mm with BE-86
9mm test of BE-86
Glock 19 4th gen Blazer brass, the 124gr gold dot bullet, 6.3gr Alliant's BE-86 powder and winchester small pistol primers.

The cartridge length was 1.120" and the crimp diameter was set to 0.3765

For the results on the chronograph:
1243
1241
1234
1261
1219
AVG 1240


My test with BE-86  Note the 6" BBL
Nov. 27 2015
Glock 20 with LWD 9mm 6" barrel
BE-86  6.6 grains
CCI 500 COAL 1.1010"
115 gr JHP 1386 -1365
125 gr Devastator 1341- 1333

[TORCHRIDER]

Great info. Thank You.

If you had to choose between AC or BE86 for full power 9mm loads which would you buy? Does one have more potential over the other?
Also, what about 147 gr. bullets, does AC or BE86 offer better performance?

[The_Shadow]

Well me personally I went with both by lean towards BE-86...
Oh here is the ling to PCTECHDUDES test he did...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-9mm-115gr-speer-gold-dot-jhp/msg75914/#msg75914

[fltbed]

I recently tried a few of the newer powders for "factory duplication loads".  BE-86 came the closest to my old stand by WSF, aka Winchester Super Field.  It just lacked a little velocity and gave up a bit in accuracy compared to WSF.

Seems most folks disregard WSF cause it's marketed as a shotgun powder and their's not much data available.  (Hodgdon online and the old Hornady vol 4?)   Heck, I don't think anyone has worked up handgun data since Winchester did back in the 90's.

However, for those willing to experiment, it's a fine powder for 9, 40 & 45acp.  Sadly, I often find my "practice" ammo to be more accurate, with higher & more consistent velocities and less muzzle flash than the "premium" self defense ammo.

Jeff

[Univibe]

I use AA5 for all 9mm loading.    It should do anything you want to do.  See AA's online reloading guide.

[TonyRumore]

I've tried a bunch of different powders in 9mm including those mentioned above, and finally settled on Ramshot Silhouette for +P+ loads.

Using Starline cases, 124gr Gold dot, CCI 500, COAL 1.122.

3.6" Witness 1327fps
4" 5906 1340fps
4.75" Beretta 92 1358fps
6" Witness 1425fps

[Pctechdude]

Hello guys, new member here. 
I am a seasoned reloader of about 30 years.
I currently have a few thousand 9mm 124 gr. Gold Dots and HST's.
I am wanting to clone the factory 124gr. +p  loadings from Speer and Federal.
I was considering AA#7, but have also read that folks are having success with BE86 and Autocomp.
What powder do y'all recommend I start with to reach full power 9mm 124gr. loads?
Any pet loads would also be appreciated to give me an idea of where the ceiling is.
Thanks in advance!

I started using the 124gr Speer gold dot and 6.3gr BE86 @ 1.120" about 3 years ago. It's been an extremely accurate loading, and produced some superb numbers. I've recommended this loading since I first tested it. And have even posted it quite a few times in various forums.

Ironically, the newest Speer manual lists be86 at 6.0 grains, and 1.120" Which I believe is a safety margin by lawyers lol!!!

If the HST is loaded to plus p at 6.2gr, 1.103" and is roughly .030 longer than the gold dot, at 6.3 gr and 1.120" it is either right at standard pressure or a minimal plus p loading.

On my testing I had 15 rounds alternated between the factory 124gr gold dot +p and my own be86 loading, the Speer brass was expanded a few thousandths over original spec, while my starline brass was barely expanded over what my full length sizer sizes to, prior to these being loaded.

These were fired from a gen 4 Glock 19. I know I had a few of my loads hit around 1260fps and made sure I kept those cases together to measure aside from the others to see if any pressure signs were raised. None were noted and all checked out just like the rest.

In general, probably one of the most solid loads I've used. I've used the Underwood data too. You can't go wrong utilizing either of them. I believe it comes down to what you want. Want something that probably won't wear your gun as fast, use the BE86 load, want the extra velocity, use the autocomp loads.

Personally, I like both, and switch between the two, but I'd have to give the nudge to BE86, as you're pretty much getting +p+ velocities from a standard or very mild +p loading. If you have a little set back, not as much issue, as you have a little room to work with. Set back with the autocomp loads, could be disastrous.

Also, for reference, I did a pull down of the Speer factory 124+p gold dot and it's loaded with 6.7gr AA#5.



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