RIA GI 10mm

[sqlbullet]

They show back in stock for $429.97.  Still a great price.

[mt10mm]

Went out today and fired 16rds UW 200gr XTP with 0 issues. Undecided if the sights are going to work for me or not. May have the slide milled for new front sight. I want to shoot it somemore before I decided. Will also try some DT 200gr HC. Overall I will say it's a nice shooting 10mm option and feel recoil was while snappy was no problem. Think I may change the grips as well.

[Kenk]

Yep, the price is amazing, hope to find in that price range

[50BMG]

Newbie here, love to share my 10mm RIA experience.
My first 10mm 1911 was a 5" RIA Ultra FS model that I bought gently used for @$400.

I bought it because of the decent price and because as a long time handgun hunter, I hoped it would shoot well enough to use as a still-hunting platform for MI. whitetail deer.
My first thoughts upon racking the gun was that the recoil spring felt a bit light. The guy I bought it from said it was the factory spring which I later found out from both RIA & on my own spring gauge was only 18#. Upon firing I quickly realized my initial guestimate was correct because ejected brass was thrown 40feet at times, and this was just factory 180g fmj target loads!

Since I didn't want to beat up the frame so bad, especially with my desire to turn up the load heat with some much hotter hunting loads, I began to work on finding an acceptable weight recoil spring. I started out with a Wolff 20 lb spring on the stock Ultra FS FL recoil guide rod setup. I found  that this weight spring would "grip" the RIA guide rod with the way that they designed the factory spring plug. This caused the slide to drag and the spring would bind, even sometimes bad enough to where the slide would sometime lock/jamb 1/2 way open! 
I attempted to round over the end of the Recoil spring to prevent this grabbing of the full length guide rod but this also did not reliably fix the problem let alone even at 20#, ejected brass was still flying 30 to 40 ft.

Upon calling RIA about this issue I was told that the maximum spring pressure they recommended for that pistol was only 18#. To their credit, they did offer to have me send in the pistol to have a new recoil spring assembly installed but since 18# pounds was clearly not strong enough I decided that this was not a good fix. I surmised that the problem was their spring plug and how higher weight springs slipped past the groove at the bottom of the plug which was supposed to keep the open recoil spring end away from the articulating FL guide rod moving right next to it.
To make an already long story a bit shorter, I ended up getting rid of the RIA FL guide rod assembly completely. I bought a Wilson closed end reverse spring plug, the kind which is made to support the bottom side of the bushingless bull barrel, along with a Wilson HD GI length spring guide.

The only fitting modification to the Wilson plug was when I used my lathe to carfully change the reverse plug's shoulder  depth so the it would fit deeper into the slide and so the the closed/barrel support end would come nearly out to the very end of the slide. Success!!!

With this setup, I can run up to 22#  recoil springs with 100% reliabilty. 24# springs do bind up a little bit, but the flying brass and well controlled recoil impulse is just fine with the 22# weight.
The gun shoots pretty well for such an inexpensive piece too.

[Kenk]

This is interesting, and hope to find out more. After contacting Shawn, RIA's Manager/Chief Gunsmith, he told me the RIA 5" FS HC 10mm factory guide rod weight was 22lbs, see below

22lb recoil 
24lb Hammer spring 

Thanks,

Shawn Fairbairn 
Manager/Chief Gunsmith
Armscor/Rock Island Armory
1-775-537-1444 ext 2002
Shawn@rockislandarmory.com
www.rockislandarmory.com 
www.advancedtactical.com

[Graybeard]

Newbie here, love to share my 10mm RIA experience.
My first 10mm 1911 was a 5" RIA Ultra FS model that I bought gently used for @$400.

I bought it because of the decent price and because as a long time handgun hunter, I hoped it would shoot well enough to use as a still-hunting platform for MI. whitetail deer.
My first thoughts upon racking the gun was that the recoil spring felt a bit light. The guy I bought it from said it was the factory spring which I later found out from both RIA & on my own spring gauge was only 18#. Upon firing I quickly realized my initial guestimate was correct because ejected brass was thrown 40feet at times, and this was just factory 180g fmj target loads!

Since I didn't want to beat up the frame so bad, especially with my desire to turn up the load heat with some much hotter hunting loads, I began to work on finding an acceptable weight recoil spring. I started out with a Wolff 20 lb spring on the stock Ultra FS FL recoil guide rod setup. I found  that this weight spring would "grip" the RIA guide rod with the way that they designed the factory spring plug. This caused the slide to drag and the spring would bind, even sometimes bad enough to where the slide would sometime lock/jamb 1/2 way open! 
I attempted to round over the end of the Recoil spring to prevent this grabbing of the full length guide rod but this also did not reliably fix the problem let alone even at 20#, ejected brass was still flying 30 to 40 ft.

Upon calling RIA about this issue I was told that the maximum spring pressure they recommended for that pistol was only 18#. To their credit, they did offer to have me send in the pistol to have a new recoil spring assembly installed but since 18# pounds was clearly not strong enough I decided that this was not a good fix. I surmised that the problem was their spring plug and how higher weight springs slipped past the groove at the bottom of the plug which was supposed to keep the open recoil spring end away from the articulating FL guide rod moving right next to it.
To make an already long story a bit shorter, I ended up getting rid of the RIA FL guide rod assembly completely. I bought a Wilson closed end reverse spring plug, the kind which is made to support the bottom side of the bushingless bull barrel, along with a Wilson HD GI length spring guide.

The only fitting modification to the Wilson plug was when I used my lathe to carfully change the reverse plug's shoulder  depth so the it would fit deeper into the slide and so the the closed/barrel support end would come nearly out to the very end of the slide. Success!!!

With this setup, I can run up to 22#  recoil springs with 100% reliabilty. 24# springs do bind up a little bit, but the flying brass and well controlled recoil impulse is just fine with the 22# weight.
The gun shoots pretty well for such an inexpensive piece too.

Kind of wondering why you didn't go with a Wilson FLGR kit? The only fitting needed is if the FLGR is a little long and I've never heard of one with spring binding issues. I've run one in my Delta Elite for almost 30yrs and tried recoil springs from 18.5 to 24lbs.

I applaud your machining efforts, but it seems like you chose the harder path. Especially when it comes to disassembly.

[sqlbullet]

Maybe I am alone, but I find the FLGR guns harder to strip.  Need a tool, and I don't need anything with a GI gun.

In fact, if it has properly slotted grip screws all I need is a cartridge with a rim to detail strip a GI 1911.

[50BMG]

Kind of wondering why you didn't go with a Wilson FLGR kit? The only fitting needed is if the FLGR is a little long and I've never heard of one with spring binding issues. I've run one in my Delta Elite for almost 30yrs and tried recoil springs from 18.5 to 24lbs.

I applaud your machining efforts, but it seems like you chose the harder path. Especially when it comes to disassembly.

The RIA gun I have is the earlier model (sorry I don't have the number handy: mine has the shorter spring housing GI frame; no accessory rail up front), and from my recollection, the Wilson reverse plug in their "kit" wasn't going to fit the RIA slide I have, let alone the underside of the barrel would have been left unsupported by the Wilson traditional round spring plug too.

I agree, I also have a 10mm Delta Elite that I am running 24# springs in, but for some reason, MY RIA gun wouldn't run anything over 22# without dragging/binding issues. Having the full length rod in there actually made this condition worse (20# was the max w/FL rod and that was unreliable).
Maybe the inside of the RIA frame I have isn't quite as large/open as the Colt/Browning 1911 spec'd frames?

Also, even though I usually do fit FL guide rods in almost all my other 1911's (all .45ACP), in reality, that supposed "upgrade" is not a necessity to the design for reliability or accuracy. Many custom guns don't have FL rods (Nighthawk comes to mind).
Yea, it's a little different disassembling it in this configuration, but I wouldn't call it difficult.
I also hated that "bent paperclip"/spring capture way of disassembling the original RIA FL one piece rod setup.
When I do FL rods on my other 1911's (with barrel bushings) I like the 2 piece rods which allow the traditional method of disassembly once the outboard end of the FL rod has been removed.
To each his own I guess...

[50BMG]

This is interesting, and hope to find out more. After contacting Shawn, RIA's Manager/Chief Gunsmith, he told me the RIA 5" FS HC 10mm factory guide rod weight was 22lbs, see below

22lb recoil
24lb Hammer spring

Thanks,

Shawn Fairbairn
Manager/Chief Gunsmith
Armscor/Rock Island Armory
1-775-537-1444 ext 2002
Shawn@rockislandarmory.com
www.rockislandarmory.com
www.advancedtactical.com

The only thing I can say is that maybe the high-cap model has a different spring spec since it has the traditional barrel bushing/plug setup?
OR, since mine was an earlier gun, they've made changes since then to the spring plug on their FL rod assemblies that allows use of a heavier spring??? A small/fairly simple change to the design would do it (see below).

When I inquired to them, they definitely told me that the max they recommended for mine was 18#, and that's what my spring gauge read for the factory spring as well. Honestly, the gun lost all reliability with anything higher than 18#.

Believe me, I tried every which way from Sunday to make heavier springs work with the stock Ultra FS FL guide rod setup.
Rounding over the open spring end with a magnifying glass/hand file and even polishing it to be 100% "burr-less" with fine paper. Lubing the crap out of the guide rod/spring/cup during assembly. Nothing worked reliably for extended periods (the above mods helped initially, but after 15-20 rounds fired, it was the same old "bind/drag/bind")

I actually began wondering that there might be something else seriously wrong with the gun because it just didn't make sense to me. But with heavier than 20#, that spring end would ride against the side of the guide rod and when under pressure (@ full recoil) that sucker would dig-into the guide rod and then wedge itself between the rod and the bottom of the spring cup that the FL rod passed through.

I actually thought about making my own spring cup with a much deeper "groove" machined into the bottom to retain the spring so there would be ZERO way for the spring-end to interact with the surface of the rod itself. But that would have involved more specialized tooling and lathe operating ability than I had at the time (and still don't; LoL...).

I'm not trying to be overly critical of the RIA guns here, just sharing what I went through with my 10mm Ultra FS. Maybe it's changed since then?
As I said, for the money, the RIA's do very well. BUT the FL rod setup on the 10mm (if they are still like the one that I had) has definite issues that will not allow you to "easily" pump-up-the-volume without beating the crap out of the frame or chasing brass for a city block...

[50BMG]

Maybe I am alone, but I find the FLGR guns harder to strip.  Need a tool, and I don't need anything with a GI gun.

In fact, if it has properly slotted grip screws all I need is a cartridge with a rim to detail strip a GI 1911.

You're not alone...
There sometimes IS great wisdom in the K.I.S.S. philosophy!

There's a LOT of very nice/very expensive 1911 makers out there who think JMB's original design is just fine the way it is...
Look at how well that design withstood not only the original Defense Dept. testing but the longevity of the same design to stay in military service for so long!

I like the 2 piece FL rods for a 1911 generally, but in reality, it's more of a customization thing than anything done out of "necessity".
Just like adding custom wheels on your car. No extra speed or even a higher degree of safety is usually gained from that mod either... It just makes it "yours"....

[10mm4ever]

50BMG, is your full length guide rod aluminum??? if it is that could problematic, i would change to steel or stainless steel. i don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but if you want to slow down the recoil impulse you need to look into upping your mainspring (hammer spring) and going to a square/flat bottom firing pin stop, if you have little to no radius your slide less mechanical advantage. your recoil spring has more to do with returning your slide into battery than it has to do with slowing the recoil impulse. i read a write up a guy did running a heavy mainspring and flat bottomed firing pin stop and no recoil spring at all, just to prove that the recoil springs main job wasn't to slow the slide. My Delta Elite that I had a full custom rebuild on and cut down to commander length is running a 26lb. recoil spring and a 23lb. mainspring and a firing pin stop with very little radius. hope this helps

[Graybeard]

Maybe I am alone, but I find the FLGR guns harder to strip.  Need a tool, and I don't need anything with a GI gun.

In fact, if it has properly slotted grip screws all I need is a cartridge with a rim to detail strip a GI 1911.

While it does make field stripping slightly more difficult the only tool you need for mine is a magazine, same as a standard spring cup. Of course a barrel bushing wrench works, too. Same with all my 5" Kimbers and true to JMB's original design. The base plate of the mag was always intended to be the tool for takedown.

To 50BMG: thanks for the reply. I've never owned an RIA and only shot a couple. Didn't know that was a bushingless model or that the specs were so different. I'm glad you got it going.

[ottoman]

On my RIA  I went with the flat firing pin stop and 23 or 24lb main/hammer spring with a 22 recoil spring. The flat firing pin stop makes a noticeable difference

[Kenk]

Who did you order that from... Link if possible
Thanks

Ken

[sqlbullet]

This is what went in my Rock:

http://www.egwguns.com/1911-parts/o/s-firing-pin-stop-ser-70-38/9/40-blue/