State of the 10mm 1911 According to me

[sqlbullet]

Based on several recent posts asking about various 1911's in 10mm I thought I would take a look at the state of affairs for NIB 1911's in 10mm right now.  I derived my list from Gunbroker: Firearms->Pistols->Semi-Auto->10mm,5" barrel, Factory New/New old stock.  I looked all 250 + posts as of May 23, 2018 5:00 PM MDT, and came up with a list of 18 guns:

RIA Tac II FS
RIA Rock Ultra HC*
Kimber Eclipse Custom
Kimber Camp Guard
Ruger SR1911*
Colt Delta Elite**
Sig Tac Ops
Springfield Armory TRP
Dan Wesson Valor
Coonan Government
Dan Wesson Wraith
STI DVC Classic
STI Marauder
STI Nitro
Les Baer Premier II
Nighthawk Talon
Nighthack Predator
Wilson CQB

This list probably is not comprehensive in the absolute sense, but it is what you could actually buy on Gunbroker today. What is actually in the marketplace is more meaningful to me.

A few comments about the list. 

Yes, they are in order based on price.  I attempted to select the lowest observed "Buy Now" price rounded up to the nearest $25. That is not to say it may not be more at your local gun store.  Get to know a good FFL that does transfers and be free of the tyranny of retail markup.

The single asterisk (*) denotes a gun model I currently own, and the double ones that I have owned in the past.

Finally, before I get into the individual models...

These are all steel 1911's. Unless I call it out otherwise they are gonna weigh around 40 oz, be single stack.  I am not gonna comment on sights, grips, beavertail, ambidextrous, etc unless the gun is in some way very unique from the rest of the crowd.  The all have ramped barrels as far as I know except the Delta Elite.

This is not meant to be a comprehensive review of these guns features and specs. This is meant to provide my general opinions of the guns, and to call out the ones that offer something special to the market beyond a 10mm 1911.  That something special may be value, price leader for a specific feature, overall aesthetic, or outstanding execution.  Again, my opinions.

I am sure some of you have pretty strong feelings about how great the Dan Wessons are or how terrible the Kimbers are, or how over priced the Wilson is.  Feel free to comment with your 2¢.

So, on to my comments about these guns.

RIA Tac II FS - $625

This is probably the best value in a 10mm handgun on the market today.  If your criteria are a solid 1911 in 10mm that will provide a lifetime of service, you really don't need to look further.  Yes, a few members have had some teething pains with their RIA guns.  But, in every case I know of RIA has continually worked with the customer to resolve any issue.  And have done so successfully the vast majority of the time.  I do recall one case where the customer could not be made happy.  My sympathy to that one customer.  Every maker will have that tale from time to time.

This gun, and it's Rock Ultra high capacity sibling, fall in line at about 1/3 the average price of the list and less than half the median price. That is an outstanding value for a dimensionally accurate 1911 that just runs out of the box and has solid customer service behind it.

RIA Rock Ultra HC - $625

See above, but with double the rounds in the magazine.  And of course a corresponding loaded weight penalty and larger grip.  Again, great value is you want a high cap 1911 in 10mm.

But...Oh, that magwell.  Jeez.

I bought mine with the intent to carry, rather than my self customized and beloved P16-40/10mm.  The Rock had the same features and reliablity. I planned to just remove that competition magwell.  As I have documented here, the frame was cut back some for this magwell, so just taking it off isn't an option.  I blended mine, and am happy with the result.  But now I have two HC 1911's that I feel invested in.

Kimber Eclipse Custom - $700

Right behind the RIA is the Kimber on the price scale.  Yes, it has MIM parts.  A properly made high quality MIM part can be more rugged than a cheap, poor quality forged part.  Not a reason to dismiss the gun.

Here is the real reason I tend to dismiss Kimber.  And this is all book of me.  They made great guns.  Then they rode their well deserved reputation to great profits while letting quality and CS fall.  Once no one was buying their products, they fixed those issues, but I feel only the amount needed to not die.

If someone gave me a Kimber I would keep it and enjoy it.  I would expect it to run and last just fine.  But given my perception (which may be wrong or biased) I would rather give my money to a company that has been a little more....well a little more.

Kimber Camp Guard - $750

While it is Kimber again, and so all I said above still applies, this is a gun I find harder to dismiss.  First, I like two tone guns.  And second, and this is huge, I love a bobtail 1911.  I have a Ed Brown bobtail mainspring housing on my desk that I keep meaning to install in a HC 1911.  This is a standout feature in a $750 1911, and represents the kind of innovation and value that I used to love Kimber for back in the late 90's.  If you are going to buy a full size 1911 for concealed carry, look really hard at this gun.

Ruger SR1911 10mm - $750

If you are going to pass on the RIA Tac II in a full size, standard grip 1911, then this should really be the next gun on your list. The Ruger checks all the boxes for a 10mm 1911, and does so with a made in the USA stamp and a price tag just $100 above the RIA.  And I don't believe it has any MIM parts.  Ruger frames are investment cast and the process and parts are well vetted and stronger than all get out.

And if you, like me, hate the giant adjustable sight, Harrison Custom makes a great drop in fixed sight.

Kimber Camp Guard - $750$950

While it is Kimber again, and so all I said above still applies, this is a gun I find harder to dismiss.  First, I like two tone guns.  And second, and this is huge, I love a bobtail 1911.  I have a Ed Brown bobtail mainspring housing on my desk that I keep meaning to install in a HC 1911.  This is a standout feature in a $750 $950 1911, and represents the kind of innovation and value that I used to love Kimber for back in the late 90's.  If you are going to buy a full size 1911 for concealed carry, look really hard at this gun.

--Price revised to 950 based on feedback from Vandy58.  I checked history on closed auctions and he is correct that in the last 30 days most have sold for $950.  I would add that if you want one of these, there are four no reserve auctions right now with current bids below $750.  Statistics say they will ramp, but you might get lucky.

Colt Delta Elite - $1,000

Let me start by saying my Colt Delta Elite is a gun I greatly regret selling.  I bought one NIB in 1992, blue steel.  I sold it a year later before I got married to pay off the last of my bachelor debt and help pay for a ring.  I still have the wife, and she is great, but I do miss the gun.

I have not bought another DE.  And that says a lot about what I think of the current Colts.  It just comes down to paying $250-$300 for a pony roll mark.  They aren't bad guns, but they are over-priced for what you get, IMHO. 

They are the lone standout with a ramped frame.  I don't see that as a downside.  Yes, you can't run over-book loads safely in your DE like you can your ramped barrel gun.  But the frame ramped barrel will work just fine with any load that meets SAAMI pressure specs for 10mm.  And, that design is simpler and simpler is usually better.  And it is a bit easier to make reliable since it offers a wider tolerance.

Colt helped a bunch with the revisions in the last year or so that finally gave the DE a beavertail grip safety and the option of a rail for another $100. But the Sig rail gun is still cheaper. And non-railed 1911's are lots cheaper with better sights, grips, triggers, etc.

Colt's Delta Elite almost certainly saved the 10mm Auto from extinction.  And before you wave you FBI flags, let me remind you that the FBI would not have been able to test the 10mm Auto ballistics were it not for the Unit chief's personal Delta Elite. We all owe Colt a debt of gratitude for saving the best MM of all time.  And we would all lament the Delta Elite passing.  But I doubt I will ever own one again unless I stumble into a lottery winning or a fabulous deal.

Sig Tac Ops - $1050

The Sig has an external extractor (gasp).  I mean is this even still a 1911?  Yes, it is.  And the external extractor, properly executed is equal to if not superior to the internal design, except for complexity which it adds.  The sig would be my go-to if I needed a railed 1911 in 10mm.  Cheaper and more feature rich than the Colt, and lots cheaper with comparable features to the Springfield, the guns are pretty solid. We see a couple of other adds here and I will mention a nice, still concealable mag-well, the first 1911 we have seen with one since the RIA Tac II.

Springfield TRP - $1300

Springfield sure waited long enough to make a production 10mm 1911.  It has been a custom shop option for years though, so they really are not new to this field.  And, the TRP line is custom production, with a fair bit of additional attention given to the guns over the models like the loaded or range master.  The guns features check all the standard boxes and it is a railed gun.  I would probably (gasp) pick on over a Dan Wesson and definitely over a Coonan in this price family of around $1500. The extra $150-$250 I would save over those other options could go into some really nice leather, or maybe into 15 trips to Five Guys for a burger.

Dan Wesson Valor - $1450

I kinda deflated my sail here by already stating I would take a TRP and extra green in my pocket over a Valor.  And I meant it 30 seconds ago when I wrote that paragraph.  But now that I am here, I think I was wrong.  The Dan Wesson Valor does what Dan Wesson does best.  Simple, clean, classic, utility 1911's.  No magwell, standard barrel bushing, no roll marks to speak of.  They usually keep the cocking serrations on the back of the slide where they belong, and give me a fixed sight with a nice abrupt edge I can use on a belt or table edge to get the gun running if one of my arms isn't.

Yeah... I take it back.  Unless I gotta have a rail (and I don't) the TRP totally looses to the Valor.

Coonan Government - $1550

Not for me.  Maybe I am missing something, but I see nothing about this gun that stands out in any way over the rest of the sub $2K crowd.  And the Coonan is the most expensive of that crowd.

Dan Wesson Wraith - $2100

Ok...I really debated even putting this in the list.  This gun is a Valor set up suppressor ready IMHO.  It has a longer barrel on the 5" slide, longer because of the suppressor ready threads on the barrel.  And it has comically taller sights, again suppressor ready.  And don't get me started on the "distressed", wanna be operator finish.  I mean really.  You want a distressed finish on your 1911, get out and put 5000 rounds through it running drills, emphasis on the "running".

If you want a suppressor ready 1911 and have $2100, this gun fits the bill. And while you can argue that you could upgrade the barrel and sights on a RIA for maybe $300-$400 and still be half the price, there is more to building a suppressor ready handgun than just adding a threaded barrel.  Dan Wesson has done the work.

But please, can I get a real finish?

STI - $2200

Consolidating these three guns on my list into one comment since they are all STI and all $2200.  If you have $2200 to spend on a handgun, you won't go wrong with an STI.  These guns will run and run, and STI will stand behind them.  But....

The only real standout here that justifies spending $2200 on a gun is the Maruader.  This hi-cap 2011 framed gun is really something.  It is the only 1911 style gun that will really complete on capabilities and specs with a Glock 20.  I know, I just offended all of you, but hear me out.

The last high cap we saw in the list was the RIA Rock Ultra HC.  While I am sure we could have a spirited debate about whether or not you need more than 10 rounds in the gun, the fact is in terms of specs, the Glock 20 holds 15 and that means a high capacity 1911/2011 to match the spec.  And the Rock Ultra is stupid heavy, while the STI 2011 actually shaves a couple of ounces over a standard capacity 1911, though it still is hefty compared to the Glock.  But, most 2011 10mm's also carry a few more rounds than a Glock 20, so I will forgive it's extra weight (cause I want to and it's my post and thread).  Finally, the Rock, while a great value, often does arrive needed to visit the mother ship.  In fact, I think more of the wide body 10mm Rocks have had to go back once than have arrived running smooth.  The STI wide-bodies have almost Glock like reliability out of the box.

There are plenty of single stack 10mm 1911's that make perfectly fine defense guns. And plinkers.  But if you spec is 15+ rounds, under 40 oz weight, 4.5"+ barrel and un-impeachable reliability out of the box, this is the first 1911 style gun that gets there.

Custom Guns only God can Afford (and Beemer wins) - $2950 and up

Les Baer, Nighthawk and Wilson all make "catalog" guns in 10mm.  They are all high end 1911's, with all that entails as far as fit, finish, feel, and fantastic.  If you have never handled one of these guns, they are a thing to behold in person.  They stand apart in every way.

Les Baer wins this category by being $350 cheaper than it's next competitor.  That still puts it at $2950.  And it will require some break-in, where the Wilson is considered GTG out of the box, and for only $850 more.

I guess my point here is this:  If you are going to buy from this category where different models can be separated by the price of a Ruger SR1911, it comes down to more than my opinion.  It is about which gun whispers in your ear, which is the siren song you can't resist.  You are really on your own.

You can't go "wrong" here unless you are seeking value.  None of these guns do anything functional that the RIA Tac II FS or Ruger SR1911 won't do for a small fraction of the price.  And at the same time, they do so much more that can't be quantified, which is why they sell so well.

Conclusion

You can see from the asterisks in the list where I spend my money.  I am a value kinda guy.  And, truth be told while I want to love the 1911 for carry, I carry a Glock 20, which has no soul.  And that is the real allure of the 1911 in any caliber.  The 1911 is a gun that drips with soul, with history.  If you don't have one, pick from the list and get to shopping, cause no gun closet is complete without a 1911.

[robert4]

Excellent and interesting post, thanks!

[Vandy58]

Only thing I would say is the Coonan is elusive and I think is already discontinued.  I have read of people into month eight of their order and as of a few weeks ago it's no longer o the website.  Your price on the camp guard is $200 too cheap.  I just bought one as an auction I got the average.  $920-$970 is the going price.  Buy it now was $1050 as of a few days ago.  Remmimgton has a 10mm as well.  It's at Cabela's for $899.  It feels like a standard government model only in a 10mm.  Great list otherwise.

[Sobrbiker]

I've had a variety of 1911's and recently became interested in 10mm. A year or so  ago I traded into a Redhawk 44 mag for carry hunting in mt lion/Black bear country. After working with it quite a bit, I was still a bit concerned about draw speed and getting rounds on target quickly (never been much of a revo guy), and at that time started looking hard at 10mm. I liked what I saw for energy with the loads I saw documented here, and realized I can draw and dump a mag with reasonable accuracy through a 1911 and reload intuitively faster than I can get 6 good shots off with the big wheel gun.

I bought a RIA Ultra FS, and am very happy I did! For under $600 ($565 shipped gunbroker score) I have a 10mm 1911 that is set up almost identical to my favorite 5" 45. I cleaned the heavy oiling it came in off and have ran ~450 rounds though it (S&B and MBC 180 and 200gr hard cast) without cleaning and only had less than 5 failure to return to battery hiccups. Most every 1911 I've had (Kimber, SA, Colt, Para) all slow down after that kind of round count without any cleaning, and the rounds I have ran I've ran a mix of the factory mag and Shooting Star 45 mags.

I'm really happy so far with it!

[Kenk]

Great info, Thanks for spending the time on this

[sqlbullet]

Good catch Vandy58 on the Camp Guard.  I failed to notice that all four auctions I referenced were no reserve penny start.  I revised the post and the gun sequence to reflect $950.

[Kenk]

After aprx 500 rd's through the RIA Rock Ultra HC, I have not had any issues, hopefully it will continue this way : )

[Captain O]

You forgot the original Dan Wesson Razorback.

[4949shooter]

I may be picking up a modified Kimber Eclipse (10mm of course) with customized Barsto barrel. I will update and range report if / when I do.

I hear what you are saying about Kimber, but the price is right as the owner wants to get rid of it.

[sqlbullet]

You forgot the original Dan Wesson Razorback.

My lists was limited to just what was on gunbroker on Thursday.  No Razorbacks were available.  Same goes for the Silverback, though a silverback has popped up since then for $1800.  I would not pick a Silverback over a Valor unless they were the same price and I wanted adjustable sights.  Which I no longer ever do.

I may be picking up a modified Kimber Eclipse (10mm of course) with customized Barsto barrel. I will update and range report if / when I do.

I hear what you are saying about Kimber, but the price is right as the owner wants to get rid of it.

Hard to pass a good priced gun.  I hear ya.  I might even buy a Wyoming Parker if the price were right!