There is a ridge on some cases

[Spudmeister]

This evening I was resizing some 1 or 2 fired Starline 10mm cases.  These cases have only been loaded and fired with the Montana Bullet 200gr WFN bullet, 8.6gr of Longshot with an LOA of 1.200".  I have shot this load (and previously with everything the same except a Beartooth 200 gr WFN bullet) many hundreds of times.  There is no history of this load being hard on brass.  Most but not all was fired previously in aftermarket barrels. 

I recently fired 100 rounds of this ammo in a G20 and G40.  Both with OEM barrels.  They shot fine.  But 1 case in 10 developed a ridge of brass.  Not a bulge.  Not a Glock smile but a ridge that catches on the carbide portion of the resizing die.  There is no sign of a hole or defect in any of the brass and it all ran fine in both guns.   But that ridge is a mystery to me.  Anybody have any ideas.  See the attached pictures.

Thank you

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[tommac919]

It looks like a glock smile to me..... A bulge is def different
IMO, that brass goes in the garbage

[Paul James]

Yep, garbage glock smiles all over that brass get Sr1911 lol

[Spudmeister]

Thanks for the feedback guy.  The only Glock smiles I've ever experienced were about 4 years ago.  It was about 4 years ago I shot my last Underwood full pressure ammo.  Nothing I have ever loaded myself gave a Glock smile.  What I spoke about above is not the Glock smiles I recall.  Rather than a typical bulge these are a ridge raised up.  Hence my request for information here.  This condition seems to have come out of nowhere.  After decades or reloading there is always something new to learn and keep me humble.

So I did more research and the ridges and found some examples of it that were considered to be Glock smiles.  Not expansion but ridges.  Right now I do not understand the reasons why this has happened with nearly new brass and what is different.  And the problem may be specific to only one of the two Glock's the ammo was shot in. 

Thanks again.  Work to do.

[tommac919]

A bulge is n expansion that is equal around the entire base of the case...you can see it but not feel it, those lines ( smiles ) are micro fractures of the brass.

It could be, as mentioned, most others were fired in non stock barrels ( esp since you mentioned it was 10% ) compared to the looser stock barrel.

Or the LS powder weigh may be on the upper edge for your gun, thought the max load was lower than used... Also the OAL seems a bit short but may be needed for the bullet to feed.

[The_Shadow]

Spudmeister, With the COL that short (1.2000") I'd say that is suspect to jacking up the pressures to give the "SMILE".  Shortest 200 grain cast I have seen is 1.2400" - 1.2420". 
Any time you go below the 1.2500" for 10mm you have to really study things especially working at the very upper limits.
I don't care how good you think your powder drop is, if you are not hand weighing each and every powder charge, a 1/10 or 2/10's becomes a lot at the upper levels.  Progressive presses can vary the powder dropped especially with certain powder types.

If you wish to try that load again, I would suggest hand weighing the powder charges and seat to 1.2500" to see if the SMILES disappear.

[Spudmeister]

Thanks Shadow,

It's amazing how a load can work for years and then give a problem.  I came up with this LOA as it fed well through all my 10mm Glocks and with all sorts of loads.  I started out running them at 1.250" and had feeding and chambering problems in the 5.3" Storm Lake barrel.  I was just downstairs looking at the loading history binder.  It seems dropping the load .2 to .4 gr will achieve the same pressure goals as seating the bullet out but without the extensive testing to make sure it works in all 5 guns and 8 barrels.

Thanks again for your input.

[The_Shadow]

Spudmeister. by chance are you running those with a newer lot of powder?  At the extremes an upper end loading with different powder lot, that may be a little more energetic can also be of concerns.

[sqlbullet]

Yep.  Changing any component, including the lot of powder, means reduce 10% and work back up.

[Spudmeister]

Shadow,

The loads with the brass ridges were all loaded a year ago and with powder that is now 2-4 years old.  I'm still scratching my head over this as the load has been a zero issue for years and hundred of rounds.  I have a hog hunt in 6 weeks and need to turn this around quickly.  "Plan B" will start with some reduced loads and test from there. 

[14 GT-500]

Yes a friend of mine brought out his Glock 20 last week to do some shooting with me and some other guy's at my house. Him and I were the only ones shooting 10mm the rest had 40s or 9mm. My friend with the Glock 20 dosen't reload so he was shooting Sig ammo FMJ 180gr. When we were done shooting he ask if I wanted the empty brass, I took a look at all the brass that was shot out of his Glock 20 and told him all that once fired brass is NO GOOD ITS  JUNK!!
He then looked at my reloads which were coming out of the chrono alot faster then his and ask"why dosen't you brass look this bad" I said because I shoot my 10s out of a 1911     I don't know what gen his Glock was, but it was sure hard on that Sig ammo!! Dam and I sure could have used some once fired brass

[tommac919]

I use a stock G20/3...
Have used both the Sig ball and hp ammo and have had no issues with the brass as far as smiles. ( really like the ammo,  btw )

Will say  that def the G20 has a looser chamber area over my Sig 220/10mm , but most cases come out in the .432 range ...with a all round slight bulge ( nothing that can't be fixed with a normal sizing on the press )
The Sig cases are def smaller at .426.... 

[Spudmeister]

2 things.  First, I love my Glock's and am not planning on getting a 1911  .  Gotta admit though... some of those new Dan Wesson's are really tempting.   Second, Think I figured out what is going on with the ridges forming on my brass.  The brass used for the 8.6gr Longshot loads with the 200gr WFN bullets is marked and used exclusively for the purpose.  The ammo is only fired about one month a year in preparation for hog hunting (I shoot lots of other and lighter ammo year round).  I think these hard ridges have started to form after the 3rd or 4th firing.  When I shot Underwood nuclear ammo the smiles would start to form on the first firing.  Sooooo... I think the pressures are high but not nuclear.  When forming loads I do multiple firings with the same load to test for extended effects of pressure and this load passed with flying colors. Hence, the head scratching.

Per Shadows comments.... While reloading yesterday I tried seating the bullet (200gr WFN MON) out further than 1.200".  At 1.235" the round fed and chambered easily.  At 1.245" the round fed but would not chamber while gently letting the slide down.  This was with the OEM G40.  Maybe it would be worth exploring moving the bullet out to 1.235"??

I've dropped the charge down to 8.3gr of Longshot on the 1.200" loads and am using the troublesome brass only that it does not currently show any signs of pressure.  17 rounds in the OEM G40 and 17 rounds in the OEM G20.  Testing should be this weekend.  I really enjoy this sort of thing.

[Spudmeister]

Well.... the plot thickens.  I went out in the 50 mph gusts today and chrono'd the new 8.3gr Longshot loads.  15 rounds in the OEM G20 and 17 rounds in the OEM G40.  This is brass from the same group that showed the ridges... only I culled through for the ones showing no pressure problems.  Essentially the same brass but one more firing.  The 8.6gr load that this thread is about gave me ridges (my version of a Glock smile I suppose) in 10 out of 100 cases.  Today's 8.3gr load gave me 1 ridge in 1 case out of 32 rounds.  Hardly the scientific method but encouraging anyway. 

I chrono'd 5 rounds in the G20 and in the G40.  With a .3 gr drop in powder the MV of the 8.3gr load was virtually identical to the 8.6 load tested about a year ago.  The G40 only lost 20 fps vs the higher charge.  That is still 1,230 fps with the G40.

Next I'll reuse this same brass and do the test all over again.  The only difference will be a drop to 8.1 gr of Longshot. 

[Duck of Death]

Here's a tip--my G29 has a Storm Lake barrel, shooting 13.5gr/#9/180gr cast, the Starline brass has been reloaded 13 times & still going.  Fired cases measure .4280 @ base.