Let's hear ideas about what's REALLY behind school shootings????

[Olgo]

You mean the aliens are telling us what to do?

[Olgo]

Here's another real reason. The security is really lax. What happened here:

https://www.ksat.com/news/mother-walks-into-south-san-hs-unseen-to-prove-districts-need-for-extra-security

[sqlbullet]

Here is another driver people at large don't recognize:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996208/

Effectively to summarize the article, living in urban/suburban areas increase the rate of mental illness.

In 1960 there were two rural dwellers for every urban dweller.  Today it is 3.5 rural to 4 urban.  And there are 4X as many people living in urban areas.  Based on that alone we could predict a rise in per-capita rates.

[gandog56]

All I know is there was no such thing as school shootings when I grew up. I blame a too permissive society where you can't hardly spank your kid for being bad any more without someone calling child protective services. These kids are growing up with no sense of right or wrong. If they are bad, go to time out? Where they can be amused by their cell pones, computers, and Wii? It's no longer even a punishment to be sent to their room.

[sqlbullet]

I blame a too permissive society where you can't hardly spank your kid for being bad any more without someone calling child protective services.

There are numerous studies that clearly show children who are subjected to corporal punishment have greater violent tendencies than children that are are disciplined via other means.

But, as a parent, you have to mean what you say, and say what you mean.  You have to be consistent, respectful and attentive.

All I know is there was no such thing as school shootings when I grew up.

Actually, there was, unless you are the oldest person on the planet by a couple of decades.  But the rate has definitely gone up bunch in the last 20 years:



And the fatality rate in school shootings compared to population has increased as well:



The mass shooting rates (>=5 fatalities) have correspondingly increased too:





But, here is the stat that I didn't expect once I had calculated the first four.

The fatality rate per school shooting is not really increasing much at all:



The news would have you believe that school shootings are on the rise because of "assault style weapons" and our "gun culture", and that shootings are more deadly today than ever before.

But the general data shows gun ownership rates in decline.  In fact, households with guns in the US is much lower than it was 50 years ago, though the data is somewhat variable.

And the fatality rate per school shooting is actually trending down, not up as the news would have you believe.

This data indicates it is not guns that are driving these statistics, but something else.


--Edit:  Source for this data is
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States

I counted the incidents manually, so there may be some small errors in counts.

[tommac919]

just plain lack of values in the home...

[spaniel]

I blame a too permissive society where you can't hardly spank your kid for being bad any more without someone calling child protective services.

There are numerous studies that clearly show children who are subjected to corporal punishment have greater violent tendencies than children that are are disciplined via other means.

But, as a parent, you have to mean what you say, and say what you mean.  You have to be consistent, respectful and attentive.

All I know is there was no such thing as school shootings when I grew up.

Actually, there was, unless you are the oldest person on the planet by a couple of decades.  But the rate has definitely gone up bunch in the last 20 years:



And the fatality rate in school shootings compared to population has increased as well:



The mass shooting rates (>=5 fatalities) have correspondingly increased too:





But, here is the stat that I didn't expect once I had calculated the first four.

The fatality rate per school shooting is not really increasing much at all:



The news would have you believe that school shootings are on the rise because of "assault style weapons" and our "gun culture", and that shootings are more deadly today than ever before.

But the general data shows gun ownership rates in decline.  In fact, households with guns in the US is much lower than it was 50 years ago, though the data is somewhat variable.

And the fatality rate per school shooting is actually trending down, not up as the news would have you believe.

This data indicates it is not guns that are driving these statistics, but something else.


--Edit:  Source for this data is
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States

I counted the incidents manually, so there may be some small errors in counts.

As a practicing scientist, I would question these data strongly.  All of these studies claiming the harm of corporal punishment (several of which I have read) have hardly been impartial, well controlled studies.  Studies on topics such as this are incredibly susceptible to bias being introduced in the way they are run. 

As for the school shooting data, what curated and all-inclusive database was cataloging school shootings in the 1800s?  NONE.  There is absolutely no way those data are real.  School shootings in that graph start to track upwards in the mid-1900s....about the time one can believe accurate nationwide records are believable.

These school shooters are almost invariably marginalized kids seeking attention.  And in the modern world, this is the ultimate way for a powerless loner to become nationally famous, and the media willingly gives it to them. As much as I am for free speech I think major media outlets should sign a pact never to publish the name or image of a mass shooter.  This would defeat their motives.

[Olgo]

As much as I am for free speech I think major media outlets should sign a pact never to publish the name or image of a mass shooter.  This would defeat their motives.

Funny you mentioned that. I thought that was a done deal?

[Ramjet]

Mental illness.......why else would any logically thinking person shoot and kill children.

[Olgo]

Mental illness.......why else would any logically thinking person shoot and kill children.

To impress chicks? 

Seriously, no sane person would do this.

[gandog56]

I look at it this way. When I was growing up, there were no such things a school shootings. But when I grew up, corporate punishment was not a BAD thing. If you were naughty, you got spanked, easy as that. Now if you whack your kid's butt, somebody is likely to call child protective service or something. But....time out doesn't teach a kid crap. Send him to their room? They'll just spend time on his cellphone, or computer, or play video games. It's no punishment at all. So now the kids just do not get a sense of what is right and wrong. And....school shootings are happening all the time. I almost see a direct correlation here.

[richbuff]

"Let's hear ideas about what's REALLY behind school shootings?"

I like to think outside the Klein bottle, looking at larger causative factors, instead of narrowly focusing on inanimate objects that receive most of the attention.

I think that the main factor is social dislocation. Human society has rapidly become more complex and conflictual, and the development of the human central nervous system has not kept up with the rapid pace of this change.

More and more teens have no faith in the roles that society has to offer them.

Take a look at Aztec, Inca, Mayan empires, as well as ancient Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Spanish, French and British empires. There were almost no school shootings/stabbings then. Instead, these societies just simply suddenly collapsed.

School shootings are not just another idiosyncratic problem in the middle of an oh so nicely engineered society. Rather, school shootings are an indicator of the level of intrinsic dislocation and conflict in the society. The inanimate physical hand tools are not the causative agents of conflict.

[Pablo]

"Let's hear ideas about what's REALLY behind school shootings?"

I like to think outside the Klein bottle, looking at larger causative factors, instead of narrowly focusing on inanimate objects that receive most of the attention.

I think that the main factor is social dislocation. Human society has rapidly become more complex and conflictual, and the development of the human central nervous system has not kept up with the rapid pace of this change.

More and more teens have no faith in the roles that society has to offer them.

Take a look at Aztec, Inca, Mayan empires, as well as ancient Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Spanish, French and British empires. There were almost no school shootings/stabbings then. Instead, these societies just simply suddenly collapsed.

School shootings are not just another idiosyncratic problem in the middle of an oh so nicely engineered society. Rather, school shootings are an indicator of the level of intrinsic dislocation and conflict in the society. The inanimate physical hand tools are not the causative agents of conflict.

Yes, and which parent should sometimes not so gently guide younger males into proper roles? Fathers are absent or have failed in most every school shooter's life.

[sqlbullet]

Several studies have shown that over 80% of student school shooting perpetrators come from homes where parents are divorced or alienated.

But...

Human society has rapidly become more complex and conflictual, and the development of the human central nervous system has not kept up with the rapid pace of this change.

We jump to the conclusion that the parents "should have done a better job".

Perhaps they couldn't.  Perhaps the parents had social-psychological defects that doomed their relationships.

I guess what I am saying is that it should be no surprise that people that are psychologically broken come from parents that are likewise psychologically broken.

And, even understanding that, what do we do?  Can't very well remain free and yet start requiring a license to procreate based on mental stability.

Our first, best, hope is to create smaller social circles that have others who can fill the role when parents can't.  Smaller class sizes and smaller schools will help this..

[gandog56]

Here's another real reason. The security is really lax. What happened here:

https://www.ksat.com/news/mother-walks-into-south-san-hs-unseen-to-prove-districts-need-for-extra-security

Yeah, but when I was a young gandog, we didn't NEED security. Nobody did these crazy shootings. I still think it is the stupid ways they tell you to bring up your children. We're raising a nation of sissies who get all butthurt over nothing and break into daddy's gun cabinet to solve things.