10mm pistol shoot-out article... Glock. Ruger, Witness, Sig

Intercooler · January 10 2018 02:10:23 AM MST

It's written a little subjective to each shooter, but I find most of it pretty spot-on. I think the Ruger should have taken more of a hit for not chambering three times. That's really critical! It seems they also dinged the Stock II some for not having a fiber front. I think they ship with one and could have been swapped preventing that loss of points.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2018/01/10mm-pistol-test/

Intercooler · January 10 2018 04:30:21 AM MST

Hmmm... also no hits for the lower capacities?

4949shooter · January 10 2018 05:35:21 AM MST

And why would they use a different specific ammo for each gun? Seems to me they should be testing all the guns with the same ammo.

TonyRumore · January 10 2018 05:48:31 AM MST

For a hunting gun, I would ding any pistol WITH a fiber optic front sight.

Tony

sqlbullet · January 10 2018 10:41:43 AM MST

So, yeah.

Ammo should have been assigned to a stage, not to a gun. That way each gun would have to eat each ammo, but it would normalize to the stage.

At least two of the stages should have given a benefit to higher capacity guns. Reloads are a reality, but if early IPSC taught us nothing else, it is that more ammo is always better. You could argue that the only reason 38 Super+ is still around today is that is made major with extra mag capacity.

Given that this is a personal defense specific article, I think there should be one other qualification. Carry the gun for a day IWB including a big lunch. I am carrying my Ruger SR1911 and EAA Witness more since Christmas as I put on a few holiday pounds and the smaller muzzle in my waistband is noticeable. If you are going to ding the Glock for grip angle and chafing, which are both subjective, then you should include a category for carry comfort. Of course, the Glock will suffer there too.

The reloading penalties seemed odd to me too. They dinged the Witness 2 points for something that is easily corrected (mags not falling free) and the Ruger only 1 point while admitting it needed an aftermarket mag well fit. Yes, I know you can get a Smith and Alexander mag well for $80, and that it is "drop-in". But, it adds a half-inch to an already sizable grip, adds about an oz of weight to an already heavy gun, and still costs $80 where the Witness probably could have been fixed with technique (keep the button down a few milliseconds longer).

Finally, while I love my Ruger, and am, in fact, carrying it today, I think there should have been much bigger penalty for its ftf rate. I am gonna assume there were four shooters, though I don't know why I think that. Feels right since they had four guns? In any event that would mean 360 rounds fired with 3 FTF's. That is just a whisker under a 1% failure rate. And that is certainly a high enough rate to cost you a match, maybe enough to cost you more in a real-world situation. My Ruger has been 100% so far. I have a couple hundred rounds through it. I don't know if my gun or theirs is the outlier. But, the only gun in the test with failures should not have come out on top.

my 2¢

Canoe · January 11 2018 02:24:44 PM MST

That is a very subjective rating system. A 1 point reduction for FTEs is kind of a joke considering the point ranges on the other more subjective criteria.

Anyway the observations are interesting and one can re-score these however they want depending on what attributes are relevant to them.

When I look at the prices though, I scratch my head at the Legion. I have the standard stainless P220 10mm that I'm trying hard to like. I would expect the Legion would have done better in the trigger and in off hand accuracy given the premium. Overall I'm a little 'meh' on the 220 10mms and seems like the Legion may not be a big step up from the other variants. But I guess I'm spoiled with an X-gun.

sqlbullet · January 11 2018 03:15:45 PM MST

Clearly scored by people who favor a 1911.

SPDSR · January 11 2018 07:20:59 PM MST

Sig Legion front sight isn't fiber optic, it's a tritium vial with fluorescent colored ring around it like a Trijicon HD. They dinked the GLOCK for having trouble with the slide release, but GLOCK's have a slide lock and have never recommended using the slide lock to chamber a round. That was kind of a bizarre "test". Especially the different ammo thing and the sights.

sqlbullet · January 12 2018 08:29:53 AM MST

Quote from: SPDSR on January 11 2018 07:20:59 PM MST
They dinked the GLOCK for having trouble with the slide release, but GLOCK's have a slide lock and have never recommended using the slide lock to chamber a round.

Like I say, it was pretty clearly an competition with criteria meant to show how the 1911 is best, no matter what.

4949shooter · January 12 2018 01:50:49 PM MST

Glock actually calls it a slide stop.

#27:

https://www.google.com/search?q=glock+parts+list&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=sV4e844xqQSJmM%253A%252CKemZuuIBNJNnwM%252C_&usg=__uKDcZMrzKnCY2Kj561oDcBwaGRc%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT5KrDpdPYAhVjm-AKHfwEB2cQ9QEIKzAA#imgrc=sV4e844xqQSJmM:

But we know what you meant. Glock's nomenclature can be confusing.

The Earl o Sammich · January 12 2018 07:50:43 PM MST

I think it's universally known as the slide stop, not release. That's what it's main function is and I still remember the DI hammering that into me on the original 1911. Rack and sling shot it. It's not a release. I guess the thinking is it can cause unnecessary wear on the slide where it catches to "STOP" it at the rear.

fltbed · January 13 2018 11:45:33 AM MST

Quote from: TonyRumore on January 10 2018 05:48:31 AM MST
For a hunting gun, I would ding any pistol WITH a fiber optic front sight.

Tony

Why is that Tony?

Personally, I started using FO front sights 20 years ago in USPSA due to aging eyes. Have them on all my handguns now and TFO's on my defensive guns.

Jeff

Patriot · January 13 2018 10:53:00 PM MST

Eh. I've owned many 10mm pistols over the years, including 3 out of the 4 they tested.

Not only is the Witness Elite Stock 2 the superior of that bunch, it is by far the best 10mm handgun I've ever owned. It makes me want to sell all of my guns and load my safe with Witness Stock Pistols.

Intercooler · January 14 2018 02:25:28 AM MST

I seem to have your fondness of the Witness pistols myself ${$default_grin_smiley}$

Intercooler · January 14 2018 03:04:35 AM MST

Quote from: Patriot on January 13 2018 10:53:00 PM MST
Eh. I've owned many 10mm pistols over the years, including 3 out of the 4 they tested.

Not only is the Witness Elite Stock 2 the superior of that bunch, it is by far the best 10mm handgun I've ever owned. It makes me want to sell all of my guns and load my safe with Witness Stock Pistols.

What's your thoughts on the models with a rail? It's kind of the one thing I don't care for much.