Doubletap Velocities & Quality

[Spudmeister]

Here are some velocities I've gotten over the last year

10mm Double Tap 200gr WFN GC factory ammo
G20 Gen 3 OEM  1,124 fps
G20 Gen 3 5.3" Storm Lake barrel 1,181 fps

10mm My reload with 200gr WFN GC bullet
G20 Gen 3 OEM 8.6gr Longshot powder  1,165 fps
G20 Gen 3 5.3" Storm Lake barrel 8.6gr Longshot  1,247 fps
This 8.6gr of Longshot load is my favorite hunting load for the G20 & G40

10mm My reload with 200gr WFN GC bullet
G20 Gen 3 OEM 7.5gr Power Pistol  1,094 fps
G20 Gen 3 5.3" Storm Lake barrel 7.5gr Power Pistol  1,155 fps
This 7.5gr of Power Pistol is easily my favorite all around field & knock around load.  Not bad in a G29 either.

As you can see from this and my above post, the DT load fits right in there.  Not too much and not too little.  My Glock's love the 200gr WFN bullet no matter if it is from Montana bullets, Beartooth or DT.  Not much difference between the gas check variant and the plan based ones.  Nothing here is nuclear.  That is a different conversation.  Just accurate, powerful and fairly easy to shoot.  Hope this helps.

[SPDSR]

Thanks everyone. So what is the general consensus on Underwood/Buffalo Bore versions with 100% stock Glocks? They aren't gas checked like DT's.

[Rojo27]

Thanks everyone. So what is the general consensus on Underwood/Buffalo Bore versions with 100% stock Glocks? They aren't gas checked like DT's.

I've personally only used the 10mm 200gr WFNGC in my Glock...  No issue (feeding or otherwise).

Here are three of the best illustrations of how the Glock does with WFN hard cast ammo:

Hickok 45 published some testing he did with DT 230gr 10mm WFN out of his Glock that continually failed to stabilize & keyholed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m0satEkGjw

Here is a later Hickok 45 video showing some more DT 230gr still tumbling as well as DT 200gr 10mm out of his Glock that worked great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP96z_MCJHA

He also published some shooting with Underwood/Buffalo Bore 10mm 220gr ammunition out of his Glock20.  Other than one hang up, it worked well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCvJe6QEWNQ

[SPDSR]

I am just a little skeptical of doubletap because of the many opinions regarding drastic velocity discrepancies. It's not even the actual velocities that really bug me, just the concept that if they are fudging those, what else is fudged? I found this chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ep9Oj0HMbljjuKSg549itlcjKojFEu6cgwajT7XcuNw/htmlview

and the DT loads are listed as hundreds of FPS slower than advertised, while UW's were frequently faster, to the nuclear point (not ideal either). I also noticed how great of a difference there was from (for example) DT's 155 Barnes load in this table to the one linked on this site. It's advertised at 1400fps from s G20. The one charts lists it as hitting an avg of 1102fps from a G20, 300 FPS below advertised, while one on here has 1448fps from a similar sized barrel, 50 FPS over advertised. So a 350fps difference between the two.

Does DT fluctuate - some years they ard hundreds of fps low, some years they meet advertised? I'm not sure what to think.

I looked at BB's 200 FMJFN since they only have hard cast in 220 grain, and according to the manufacturer of that bullet it only has a BHN of 15. I asked BB what FMJ bullet was used, as many fmj's are not built tough for bone or hard barriers like auto glass (the things BB Describes their fmjfn for) , and Tim would not respond to that question (asked about 5 times over a year). He'd answer other things though. Why are these companies so weird! Just tell us the truth!

[Intercooler]

Did you check out the master sheets stickied above?

It seems Doubletap was up, went down and then recovered some. Some of their recent stuff I tested was back up again. When they compete against Underwood and Buffalo Bore for the dollar (both do pretty much rating), where they charge more $$$ in most cases... they would be out of business now if they didn't right the ship! Finally his pricing is more in line with the competition too when he offers 20% off.

[4949shooter]

Doubletap is getting better. I am sure they are responding to their competitors. Their 180 grain fmj match load isn't quite Underwood but it is up there in power, perhaps more like the Sig load, if not a bit better.

[DixieLab]

Check Mike's Facebook page. Right now 35% off and free shipping.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=129018327176194&ref=content_filter

I would order some,but I just bought some on sale around Christmas time.

I'll agree that his advertised velocities are wishful thinking,but it is quality ammo. I'm confident that the 200grn WFNGC, that I clocked at 1,176fps, will let the air out of anything that breathes in my neck of the woods.

I just received some 180grn Bonded Defense (Gold Dot?) and will do some chrono when it warms up a little.

[Mike D]

Check Mike's Facebook page. Right now 35% off and free shipping.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=129018327176194&ref=content_filter

I would order some,but I just bought some on sale around Christmas time.

I'll agree that his advertised velocities are wishful thinking,but it is quality ammo. I'm confident that the 200grn WFNGC, that I clocked at 1,176fps, will let the air out of anything that breathes in my neck of the woods.

I just received some 180grn Bonded Defense (Gold Dot?) and will do some chrono when it warms up a little.

I've been getting that email since November and they still don't have the rounds I want in stock so it's useless to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Spudmeister]

Check Mike's Facebook page. Right now 35% off and free shipping.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=129018327176194&ref=content_filter

I would order some,but I just bought some on sale around Christmas time.

I'll agree that his advertised velocities are wishful thinking,but it is quality ammo. I'm confident that the 200grn WFNGC, that I clocked at 1,176fps, will let the air out of anything that breathes in my neck of the woods.

Well said.  I have read a lot of hate for Double Tap over their fantasy velocities.  While I do not "have a dog in this hunt" as I reload almost everything, I suggest there is a perspective largely missing here... in my experience anyway.  Underwood and Buffalo Bore run there ammo into the nuclear zone as often as they can.  That's fair and it's proven a good marketing strategy.  But running everything flat out and wide open all time comes with its own risks and problems.  Both companies have been burnt by that policy.  Double Tap has quietly decided to stay away from the hairy edge of pressure/performance problems.  Yeah, their quoted velocities are bunk but there ammo is excellent for 99% of anything you'd want your 10mm do.    For the life if me I don't know how a reasonable person could criticize them for that.   

[SPDSR]

That makes sense. They are also the only one of the three that don't offer non-existent rounds like +P 380 Auto (just a better way to label a box than having "over-pressure ammo in accordance with absolutely no guidelines or parameters" on the tab). However, I'm more concerned with the inconsistencies I've read. For example, we have all seen many tests where their velocities are low. But if you look on the master sheet on this forum, some of their loads clocked above their already high claims. The 135 Nosler came in 150 FPS above advertised for 900 ft-lbs of energy. That it atrociously nuclear. Then in some tests their Barnes 155's were 50-100 FPS above advertised, while others were 200-300 FPS below. So my concern is I'd have no clue what range any given offering of theirs is, which may vary from hundreds below to above, and from batch to batch,etc.

[Mike D]

Check Mike's Facebook page. Right now 35% off and free shipping.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=129018327176194&ref=content_filter

I would order some,but I just bought some on sale around Christmas time.

I'll agree that his advertised velocities are wishful thinking,but it is quality ammo. I'm confident that the 200grn WFNGC, that I clocked at 1,176fps, will let the air out of anything that breathes in my neck of the woods.

Well said.  I have read a lot of hate for Double Tap over their fantasy velocities.  While I do not "have a dog in this hunt" as I reload almost everything, I suggest there is a perspective largely missing here... in my experience anyway.  Underwood and Buffalo Bore run there ammo into the nuclear zone as often as they can.  That's fair and it's proven a good marketing strategy.  But running everything flat out and wide open all time comes with its own risks and problems.  Both companies have been burnt by that policy.  Double Tap has quietly decided to stay away from the hairy edge of pressure/performance problems.  Yeah, their quoted velocities are bunk but there ammo is excellent for 99% of anything you'd want your 10mm do.    For the life if me I don't know how a reasonable person could criticize them for that.   

What would be wrong with accurately stating velocities? It's deceiving business practice otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[sqlbullet]

What would be wrong with accurately stating velocities? It's deceiving business practice otherwise.

I agree with this.  But it is fraught with it's own special set of goodies.

A properly stated velocity for a give load would be a an average of 10 rounds fired from a SAAMI spec pressure barrel for the cartridge, using the SAAMI approved methods and qualifications.  These are all spelled out in ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3-2015.

I personally would like to see the uncorrected and corrected values for each shot, velocity and pressure, as well as the averages.

But, this would only give you a standardized reference between ammo, with no implication to how it will perform in your gun at your range.  Which would result in all kinds of gnashing of teeth about how you never actually see the manufacturer stated velocities in the "real world".

All of that said, the real problem with Doubletap stated velocities is they are widely inconsistent.  Some catalog items exceed the stated values by 10-15%, others fall behind by that much or more.  Shot to shot performance seems reasonably consistent, but lot to lot seems to vary as well.

This says to me that they are likely loading to pressure with available components.  When the powder or bullet length changes based on availability, they adjust the load to stay within the correct pressure range, with an effect on velocity.

And publishing lot based velocity data would be a nightmare on several fronts.

Just my ramblings for today.

[SPDSR]

Yep the inconsistency is what befuddles me. I was hoping there were some recent tests with it, to see if things had changed but it appears most of the tests were all within a few years, a few years ago.

[DixieLab]

Just got back from the range/backyard. Finally got a chance to chrono the 180grn "Bonded Defense" that I got from DT.

52 degrees Fahrenheit at 1000ft elevation
@ 10 feet from muzzle using Glock 20 Gen 4
5.2" LWD barrel
24lb RSA
5 shot Avg:1320fps (20 fps above advertised)

I'm starting to roll my own 10mm and probably won't be buying anymore factory ammo,but until I get to where I want to be,this will be my carry round.

[Intercooler]

Just got back from the range/backyard. Finally got a chance to chrono the 180grn "Bonded Defense" that I got from DT.

52 degrees Fahrenheit at 1000ft elevation
@ 10 feet from muzzle using Glock 20 Gen 4
5.2" LWD barrel
24lb RSA
5 shot Avg:1320fps (20 fps above advertised)

I'm starting to roll my own 10mm and probably won't be buying anymore factory ammo,but until I get to where I want to be,this will be my carry round.

What's the flap rating these days and with what barrel length?