Carry ammo and let's be real

[Kenk]

Still a good carry rd, don't know that  one of my favorites, Underwood's 155gr at 1,500 FPS would be so great, over penetration could certainly be a possibility

[sqlbullet]

Sample velocities should have been obtained in a SAAMI spec test barrel.  These are documented in ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3 American National Standard Voluntary Industry Performance Standards for Pressure and Velocity of Centerfire Pistol and Revolver Ammunition for the Use of Commercial Manufacturers.  My copy is last updated 2015, but I downloaded it last September.  The 10mm spec barrel listed there was 5.000" ± .010"

These specs also require a minimum spec chamber and grooves, both of which raise pressures and velocity.  In general such barrels are locked in a fixture that does not recoil, which also can impact velocity.

[Kenk]

Thanks sqlbullet

[sqlbullet]

Keep in mind I said "should have been", not were.  Who knows where some makers get their velocity numbers.

[Chefgerg]

I carry Underwood 165 gr in both my 20 and 29.

[Kenk]

For sure the 165 bonded is awesome too, nice energy

BALLISTICS INFORMATION
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 718 ft lbs

[druryj]

I carry either the Hornady 155 Gr XTP Rounds or the Underwood 180 gr Delta Elites, or the 180 gr Gold Dots in my Gen 4 G29.  All 3 of these are quite sufficient, if I do my part.  I find the Hornady rounds to be very accurate and a bit easier on the follow-up, so I may settle on those, even though they are a little less powerful than the UW offerings, they should be more than good for self defense use.  This thread has made me think more about selecting a "definitive" SD round, which means I need to get to the range ASAP to do some shooting/testing/evaluation.  Oh darn, I have to go shooting.  Darn the luck...I'd much rather stay home and do yard work...

[Kenk]

Ordered up some UW 165gr Bonded HP's until the 175gr Silver tips are available again. Gotta love that Underwood ammo : )

[Florida Yankee]

So explain to me why something like a Double Tap 230 grain 10mm wouldn't be a great penetration round on a big dude ?

I've shot wild boar with it and it demolishes bone.

Thoughts ? Expansion issues ? FPS issues ?


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[sqlbullet]

It would be a great penetration round.

But, great penetration and great personal defense are not synonyms.

[Rojo27]

Double Tap makes a 10mm 230gr hardcast as well as a 239gr "equalizer" (135gr jhp & 95gr ball). 
Florida, to illustrate the answer to your question.  The 230gr hardcast will absolutely penetrate approximately 5' or more in ballistics gel where most defensive ammunition is designed to cause wider wound channel and only penetrate 12" to 18" in ballistics gel.  Gel obviously does not equate to bad guys or game animals but it is a standard media to compare penetration.  The heavy hardcast is definitely going to smash bone (if bone is struck directly) and penetrate through and through in a defensive situation, then keep on trucking the rest of the way through your house, car, building, etc.  In the case of 10mm, it's definitely going to produce a .40 hole through the bad guy and 6 more of his buddies if they're nice enough to line up in a straight line for you.  Massive penetration is great in a woods carry or hunting application.  Self defense ammo like jhp have very different design objectives centering on stopping, (disabling the BG) the threat in the fastest possible way. 
Hope that helps some. 

[Kenk]

And on through the neighbors frig

[will965]

175g Silvertip for urban, 200g underwood xtp or 180 fed trophy match (1290fps)

[Florida Yankee]

You guys are truly some of the best minds I've encountered on the net concerning 10MM ammo.

I switched my carry in the woods from a Colt Officers .45 to a Colt Delta Elite from non stop nagging how better a .45 was than a 10. After viewing some gel tests and such on Utube from people such as you all in here, I laid down the $1000 and bought the Delta.

Now performance ? I don't shoot humans for a side hobby or a job. I carry mainly to stop a bear [emoji199], alligator [emoji246] or boar [emoji203] from attacking while bow hunting.

Here's my real life experience. Encountered a pack of 200 pound pigs while riding the atv back to camp.  Picked one out, shot it kinda Texas heart shot 1st shot, slowed it down immensely from the pack, moved around and tapped one into the neck. Dead. My .45 never did such quick work. Bullet was a Hornady Critical defense 165 hollow point. Expansion was emmense and controlled with no defragmentation seen.  Was in shock actually because I always was a heavy bullet lover.

Soon came in my ordered Double Tap  230 hard ball ammo. Shot 2 other pigs with these. Shocked to say, results didn't seem to be as good !!! You'd think those 230's would crush a pig. I'm thinking not enough expansion ? I never recovered a bullet to see.  So I'm not sure ? I still am using the Double Tap 230's because I feel bone is bigger on a bear [emoji199] than a pig.

My question is, what's up with expansion on the 230 grain Double Tap ? I think I might be "over bulleted". Too much bullet for the bone size of a big pig ? Possible ? I might be better off using a Federal Hydra shok? Those Hornady rounds, I tell ya, worked amazing. I'm going to go back and see if that was just a fluke and maybe better shooting ?

If y'all can recommend any testing on 10mm rounds for self defense and animals I'd be happy for your help.

Everglades Swamp Hunter thanks you.


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[Florida Yankee]

Double Tap makes a 10mm 230gr hardcast as well as a 239gr "equalizer" (135gr jhp & 95gr ball). 
Florida, to illustrate the answer to your question.  The 230gr hardcast will absolutely penetrate approximately 5' or more in ballistics gel where most defensive ammunition is designed to cause wider wound channel and only penetrate 12" to 18" in ballistics gel.  Gel obviously does not equate to bad guys or game animals but it is a standard media to compare penetration.  The heavy hardcast is definitely going to smash bone (if bone is struck directly) and penetrate through and through in a defensive situation, then keep on trucking the rest of the way through your house, car, building, etc.  In the case of 10mm, it's definitely going to produce a .40 hole through the bad guy and 6 more of his buddies if they're nice enough to line up in a straight line for you.  Massive penetration is great in a woods carry or hunting application.  Self defense ammo like jhp have very different design objectives centering on stopping, (disabling the BG) the threat in the fastest possible way. 
Hope that helps some.

You're fricking amazing !

I get it. Sometimes too much penetration is over kill. You'd rather open up a bigger hole, and penetrate enough instead of killing your neighbor 3 apartments down. Lol [emoji38]. I get it because that's why I bought an AR10 and put 168 grain full metal jacket ammo in it. To shoot the bad guy in the next room of my home THRU the dry wall. Lol

So I think I'm over "bulleted" for most of my needs. Gotta find that sweet spot of expansion and penetration. People are different than animals and animals vary from other animals. Your gel theory is spot on. It's just a result you can visualize, which I do value. They do place bone and fur in front, but still gel is tougher than guts I'd think. Those wound channels gel shows is amazing how the funnel opens up as the bullet expands.

Again, thank you from a person who doesn't know the finer details of these things.

You rock !


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