Fixing Witness Hunter Ejection

[Scarlett Pistol]

My Witness Hunter not only flings brass extraordinary distances! E.G. Last weekend on an outing with lots of friends and friends of friends my brass was hitting kids 30 to 40 feet down the shooting line from me. This is with a new 22 lb recoil spring!

The real problem is that the brass is being damaged during ejection. I think I posted about this previously with the picture, but the case mouths are being somewhat flattened as the brass is smashing into the bottom right hand side of the opening of the ejection port of the slide. When it isn't hitting that part of the slide it is being spun around and the case mouth hits the part of the slide where the extractor is pinned, and also messes up the brass.

I played around with empty brass and slowly pulling the slide backwards to determine what point the ejector is impacting the case and initiating ejection. It was quite early, considering how much distance the slide still had to travel rearwards. So last night I took out the sear cage and removed some of the ejector's length. I also put an angle on the end (which was originally there to an extend) to facilitate the brass going up and to the right side.

Side Note: When putting the sear cage back together I ran into a minor difference between the CZ's and Witnesses. The short arm of the sear spring wrests against the sear and applies pressure to cause the sear to reset. The angles of the face on the sear where this spring arm rests and the angle of the arm itself are different than CZ 75's, and it was a huge PITA to get back into place. I'm sure there is a trick or two and I am happy to hear what ya'll know and I may post a thread specifically about it with pictures. For context, I have reassembled CZ 75 manual safety sear cages hundreds of times, but this was my first pass at the witness sear cage.

Back to the regularly scheduled content... I threw together 2 dummy rounds hand cycled them, along with an empty case (which does not feed on its own) to see how things worked. The dummy rounds ejected to the right and the point at which they impacted the ejector was definitely further back in the rearward travel of the slide. They ejected find and picked up the next rounds.

Another Witness Side Note: When I was hand cycling slowly, specifically the slide moving forward and picking up a round from the magazine, something new happened that does not occur during live fire. Now, I know this scenario is not how the pistol is designed to function in live fire, but... the round would jump up and the next round would also pop up enough that the bottom corner of the slide would catch it. That corner was sharp enough that is starting pulling the second round forward and then dig into the brass and cause a FTF the first round. Again, this does not happen in live fire as the slide outruns that second round. I still didn't like this happening so I took the pistol apart and beveled and smoothed that corner. I usually do that to my CZ 75's just to insure reliability and reduce wear on the brass as the slide moves forward. I've never had it cause problems in my CZ 75's either, but it's just me being a perfectionist and this Witness have a much sharper edge than any of my CZ 75 type pistols.

So in conclusion, I will hit the range sometime later this week to see if this resolves the extreme abuse of my brass and see what ejection is now like. I can toss in pictures if anyone cares to see what I did and how I did it and what not. These 10mm Witness Hunter's are quite the pistols! I admit that for the price I would have hoped for a few less little issues/tuning to work through, but the accuracy and trigger were incredible out of the box!

[sqlbullet]

Brass ejection distances measured in parsecs is just one of the joys of owning a 10mm.  The only solution I know of is the one you employed, trimming back the ejector.

Be sure to report back how well it worked.

As far as reassembling the sear cage, I have only done the witness and it was a pain.  I recall I may have created a slave pin, but I don't remember as it has been many years ago.

[01deuce]

Besides shorting the ejector,  a heavier hammer spring also helps. With the hunter being SA only the trigger pull weight doesn't get effected like it does in DA. Flat bottom firing pin stop is another item to add IMO.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Brass ejection distances measured in parsecs is just one of the joys of owning a 10mm.  The only solution I know of is the one you employed, trimming back the ejector.

Be sure to report back how well it worked.

As far as reassembling the sear cage, I have only done the witness and it was a pain.  I recall I may have created a slave pin, but I don't remember as it has been many years ago.

Ha, that is true. I guess the distance is not the real concern as destroying my precious brass is the real issue.  I'll definitely post an update after I get it to the range.

Dang, no that you mention it I can see how I can use a slave pin for the sear and sear spring. I am actually mad at myself for not thinking through that in the moment (or 30 minutes) of me trying to get that back in place. Next time it will take all of 2 minutes with a slave pin, freak! Good call sqlbullet!

Besides shorting the ejector,  a heavier hammer spring also helps. With the hunter being SA only the trigger pull weight doesn't get effected like it does in DA. Flat bottom firing pin stop is another item to add IMO.

Hopefully the ejector modification changes the timing so it isn't destroying brass. After that I don't care how far it decides to fling. I am pretty interested to see if this changes the direction if ejects very much too. Anyways, I'll keep ya'll posted.

[sqlbullet]

I searched you posts for pics of the brass.  Couldn't find any.  I would be interested to see some.  Usually badly mangled brass is from extractor issues more than anything else.  Though for every rule there is an exception.

[Canoe]

Are you sure it is the right spring - 22lbs?  I'm trying to set up my Hunter but 20lbs seems to be the max Wolff available for a long-slide model.  If you have a 22b spring, maybe it is meant for a shorter slide.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Good news. The ejection pattern was adjusted and the brass ejected consistently straight to the side.

Bad news. The brass is still getting banged up.

I would of sent it back to EAA right out the get go, but we all know what sort of customer service they offer. For $950 there's some things I'd expect to be better, and I don't care to keep trouble shooting the ejection issue. The pistol is up for sale.

[Intercooler]

How far did you cut the ejector back? I have mine like a knub!

[Scarlett Pistol]

I deleted the pics of the brass, but I did post these is the reloading and ammo sub forum over at the CZ forum.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=92511.0

[Scarlett Pistol]

How far did you cut the ejector back? I have mine like a knub!

It's pretty far back. Not a knub yet... I think the issue is most of the angle the brass is getting ripped up along the side of the frame. I don't know though.

[Intercooler]

What spring and part number are you using in it?

[sqlbullet]

A little case mouth hit is nothing.  I just resize those out.

[Intercooler]

  Perhaps you have too much spring? I just stay with a 20lb and it seems to run everything okay. I would only opt for the 22lb if running full-boogie 10mm all the time. If you have kind of .40-lite loads an 18lb would probably be just fine.

[01deuce]

 If you are using a Wolff 22lb recoil spring you are using the wrong spring. The long slide springs  are only offered up to 20lb's.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Correction on my typing/memory process. I am running the 20 lb spring. part 49820 is that longslide 20lb recoil spring from Wolff.

A little case mouth hit is nothing.  I just resize those out.

This is good to know! If it is happening all the time how can I check for pressure signs via measuring the case when it gets so banged up all the time? Does this happen with most all the other Witness pistols in 10mm? Do the Glocks mess up brass like this as well?