RIA10mm jam

[willie91k]

Have a new Ria 10mm double stack the problem I am having is
if I load one round in mag it chambers fine. But I load more than one it jams. The first round goes in part way.
if I hit the mag release button and the mag moves down a little it will then chamber first round.
   put one round in mag pull slide back let go it chamber fine put more than one pull slide back and let go it a no go.
   Any ideas??

              Thanks willie

[sqlbullet]

Extractor is not fit correctly.  The 1911 is controlled feed and when the round hits the extractor hook it gets stopped.  It behaves better loading one round as the vector of force applied by the follower is different than that applied by a round below.

This is a pretty common complaint with the RIA double stack guns.  They will RMA and fix it for you, or you can do it yourself.

[willie91k]

I have had the extractor out made sure no junk in the hole. put empty case in and shook it. it stays in until I shake real hard so I think the extractor is not overly tight . (saw a youtube video on Wilson combat on how to check)and that is how they said to check. looks like drag marks on the top of the second round when you release the slide to chamber the first round
kind of like the first round is pulling the second one with it when it goes to chamber. if that makes any sense. its pulled ahead in mag not all the way to the back. But like I say if I hit the mag release it will chamber.

          Thanks willie

[The_Shadow]

Be sure that if you are running reloads that the casing rims are not dinged up or bent...  Better to use new ammo or brass if checking for issues...

[willie91k]

new armscor 180 gr fmj.

[sqlbullet]

That is how you check tension, but tension is not your problem.  Fitting is.

Picture is worth 1K words:



This is mine as it came from the factory.  Lots of three point jams, just like you describe.

See how the lower edge of the extractor hangs out past the slide?  That edge needs to be broken and smoothed so the rim of the case won't catch on it as it rides up under the extractor hook.  I removed mine, put a file to it, and then some 400 grit, then some 800 grit.  When I was done it would hand cycle dummy rounds.  I have not made it back to the range yet.

If you extractor doesn't hang out like this, it may not be your issue, but I am betting this is it.

Other possibilities:  Rough breech face, bad magazine springs, rough feedramp/throat and stem bind.

As this is a new gun and we haven't had reports from other RIA owners about issues related to the breech face, feed ramp/throat or magazine springs, I bypassed these.  I actually bypass them for two reason.  First, no reports, as mentioned.  Second, with the exception of magazine springs, I think polishing breech faces and ramps is a short term fix to a bigger problem.  See, I want a gun to function even if it gets dirty and scroungy in the breech face/feed ramp area.

This leaves us with extractors that are poorly fit, though properly tensioned, or with a link pin and lower lug that need some work.

And most guys report extractors that look about like mine did above.  And that once they address the extractor, the issues go away.

Here is a Wilson Combat video about the issue:

[willie91k]

ok will take gun apart and take a look

          Thanks willie

[willie91k]

ok took the extractor clear out of gun. put slide back together minus extractor. Loaded one round in mag and it chambered fine. Load two rounds it jams.
Bottom of slide is dragging on top of second round. If I drop mag it will chamber. so I am thinking mag or follower ? ordered new mags now wait I guess.
what do you guys think??

                 Thanks willie

     

[dred]

ok took the extractor clear out of gun. put slide back together minus extractor. Loaded one round in mag and it chambered fine. Load two rounds it jams.
Bottom of slide is dragging on top of second round. If I drop mag it will chamber. so I am thinking mag or follower ? ordered new mags now wait I guess.
what do you guys think??

                 Thanks willie

     

I think you should have Armscor get you fixed up under warranty.  They are good.  Sounds like your mags may be seating too high - they can fix that for you.

[sqlbullet]

ok took the extractor clear out of gun. put slide back together minus extractor. Loaded one round in mag and it chambered fine. Load two rounds it jams.
Bottom of slide is dragging on top of second round. If I drop mag it will chamber. so I am thinking mag or follower ? ordered new mags now wait I guess.
what do you guys think??

                 Thanks willie

     

I think you should have Armscor get you fixed up under warranty.  They are good.  Sounds like your mags may be seating too high - they can fix that for you.

This.

The dragging on the next round doesn't really concern me though.  I dry fire whatever gun I carried on a given day 50-100 times each night before it goes in the nightstand safe.  Rounds get pretty scuffed up from the slide riding on them.  And it isn't unheard of for a mag to eject with the top round pulled forward a bit.

I think it is more likely that the link is improperly fit and is creating too much stem bind.  This makes the dragging more obvious since it also contributes to stem bind, though in normal operation of a properly fit pistol you don't notice it.

I hate sending a gun back to the maker, but I would if I were you.

[willie91k]

Still waiting on magazines  its day 10 and they are not here yet. Were in stock when I ordered from grabagun.
Armscor called me back today and are sending shipping label. The lady I talked to first said she would send a magazine to try.
Then today they called and want gun back. oh well that's the way it goes. 

   Guys thanks for all the help !!  willie

[HCRTexas]

That is how you check tension, but tension is not your problem.  Fitting is.

Picture is worth 1K words:



This is mine as it came from the factory.  Lots of three point jams, just like you describe.

See how the lower edge of the extractor hangs out past the slide?  That edge needs to be broken and smoothed so the rim of the case won't catch on it as it rides up under the extractor hook.  I removed mine, put a file to it, and then some 400 grit, then some 800 grit.  When I was done it would hand cycle dummy rounds.  I have not made it back to the range yet.

If you extractor doesn't hang out like this, it may not be your issue, but I am betting this is it.

Other possibilities:  Rough breech face, bad magazine springs, rough feedramp/throat and stem bind.

As this is a new gun and we haven't had reports from other RIA owners about issues related to the breech face, feed ramp/throat or magazine springs, I bypassed these.  I actually bypass them for two reason.  First, no reports, as mentioned.  Second, with the exception of magazine springs, I think polishing breech faces and ramps is a short term fix to a bigger problem.  See, I want a gun to function even if it gets dirty and scroungy in the breech face/feed ramp area.

This leaves us with extractors that are poorly fit, though properly tensioned, or with a link pin and lower lug that need some work.

And most guys report extractors that look about like mine did above.  And that once they address the extractor, the issues go away.

Here is a Wilson Combat video about the issue:

AWESOME info.

[willie91k]

Got the pistol back 12/20 sent it in 11/29 told them if you load more than one round in mag it would jam.Josh was the gunsmiths name that worked on it His note says customers concerns verified and repaired. Tuned lubed and test fired. So I open the box load 3 rounds and it jams  Armscor ammo tried Hornady still jams!!  Called Armscor the 21st. Talked to a John in sales he said to email shawn@armscor.com he is the head gunsmith did that on the 21st and still no reply.So I call back today get John again he says email phillip@armscor.com he is a supervisor.So we will see. Have a short video of it but not sure how to post on here

Willie

[sqlbullet]

Good update!  Bad Armscor.

Be sure to include in your email a link to this thread so they know about the bad press they are getting.

[willie91k]

sqlbullet I did post a video on you tube also. The sales supervisor emailed me back and sent return label. its on its way back
the freight charge they paid said 47.00 take that times four not cheap for them. I told them I would pay for a box of shells but shoot a few mags threw it
to make sure it works correct before sending it back.  youtube  RIA10mm back from Armscor    To see how it jams

                    willie