Power Pistol & Red Dot with X-Treme HPCB 180gr bullets

[DAVIDF]

I just started hand loading for 10mm. I have been hand loading for straight walled revolver cartridges for decades, but none for semi-auto's.

I loaded up some 10mm with Red Dot & Power Pistol using once fired Starline brass. This brass was from Georgia Arms 180gr Gold Dot or their 180gr plated load. I used WLP primers. I used a Lee carbide four die set and weighed each powder charge. OAL varied from 1.245 to 1.249" for the Red Dot load & from 1.247 to 1.251" for the Power Pistol load on the ones I measured. I used a light crimp about a fifth to quarter turn after touching the case mouth with a Lee FCD.

I chronographed them using a Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital from 10 feet. Temperature was 71 degrees, 85% humidity, 29.9 inHg, elevation 33 feet. Firearm used was a Gen 3 Glock 20 with stock barrel & RSA.

First string was 5.0 gr of Red Dot, X-Treme Bullets 180gr Heavy Plate Concave Base bullet. X-Treme says these are .400", but I measured them at .401.

1-911        6-925
2-933        7-952
3-947        8-951
4-932        9-945
5-929       10-929

Hi-952 Lo-911 Ave-935 ES-41 SD-13

This load was intended to duplicate a soft shooting 40 S&W load and it almost exactly duplicated a 40 S&W load from Freedom Munitions with a 180gr plated bullet (same X-Treme bullet or their lighter plated bullet with flat base). I chronographed the Freedom load the same day:

Hi-968 Lo-913 Ave-943 ES-55 SD-15

Next is 8.0 gr of Power Pistol and the same bullet:

1-1088       6-1124
2-1130       7-1098
3-1128       8-1129
4-1156       9-1118
5-1103      10-1162

Hi-1162 Lo-1088 Ave-1123 ES-74 SD-23

With this load I am trying to duplicate my carry load which is Georgia Arms 180gr Gold Dot which I also chronographed the same day. Velocity wise I did that almost perfectly on the first try. I did not expect to do that with this load as I figured the Georgia Arms load would be faster than I saw and I would need a heavier charge of Power Pistol to match it.

What I did not like with this load is that large ES & SD. It might have been slightly tighter with the Wolf Gunsprings guide rod & 20lb spring and velocity would probably be higher. But, it would not have improved it enough to be satisfactory. Accuracy was mediocre with this load.

Previously, I had tried various charges of Power Pistol (6.8, 7.2, 7.6, 8.0, & 8.4gr) with the same bullet, OAL, primer, once fired case, but with a medium crimp and accuracy was horrible particularly with the 8 & 8.4gr charges. With this load I tried to duplicate the crimp of the Georgia Arms load by crimping just enough to elimate the bell of the case mouth. Accuracy improved, but it is not anywhere close to the accuracy I get from the Georgia Arms load, 2 3/4" five shot group from a mediocre rest at 40 yards as an example. More than double that with this load at least.

The Red Dot load seems to be sufficiently accurate, similar to the 40 S&W remanufactured loads ffom Freedom. But I would like those to be a bit better if I can get there.

Any suggestions on where to go from here to get better accuracy? Should I stay with the same crimp? I did not notice any bullet set back from chambered loads that I examined, but I did not bring my calipers. Next time I will bring them and measure a few. Should I try 8.4 & 8.7gr of Power Pistol and see if the ES & SD decrease?

[Plunker]

Also using Xtreme 180 gn with Power Pistol, with VERY good results. I crimp in a separate step, on the heavy side.  My 8.4 load matches the GA 180 FMJ load. COL of 1.255 on all.

          Low        High        Averag.    Energy       PF:         ES      SD
8.2   1124   1150   1135.2   515.6   204.4   26    8.16       1134   1150   1128   1139   1131   1140   1124   1139
8.4   1116   1173   1150.3   527.7   206.8   57   19.15           1136   1116   1140   1163   1139   1165   1159   1173
8.6   1153   1184   1168.0   545.5   210.3   31   11.15           1163   1181   1184   1169   1167   1173   1153   1155
8.8   1175   1224   1200.8   576.0   216.1   49   21.88           1212   1191   1175   1222   1224   1178      

I have not tried Red Dot, but have Blue Dot. Wasn't real happy with the results.

[DAVIDF]

Yes, I am crimping in a separate step as well. A medium crimp resulted in very poor accuracy. Lighter better, but not good.

I am wondering if part of the issue I am seeing may have to do with my Lee scale. Seems to be finicky and perhaps the powder charges are varying too much.

Are you using X-Treme's heavy plated or standard plated bullets?

[Plunker]

I'm using Heavy plated.  (RNFP HPCB)  I use a Lyman or RCBS digital powder measure. I do check the weights every so often with a RCBS 5-0-5 and RCBS 750 scale. On some powders the ES and SD vary by large numbers, so I just find what MY gun likes, and go with it. As I have 3 10's, I'm not going to load for each, but looking for what does decent in all.

[DAVIDF]

Your 8.2 gr charge looks to have a good ES & SD. Do you find that one to be the most accurate?

[fltbed]

Hey Plunker, welcome to the forum.

I also have three 10's that I load for, (RIA 5" Ultra FS, Glock 40, RIA 6" PRO) and just like you, don't want to have to load for each of them.  I also load primarily for accuracy cause I've always believed in the old adage, "velocity is fine...accuracy is final".

In my testing, I've found Power Pistol works really well with just about any 155 gr bullet but not so well with 180's and heavier.  If you look back through the reloading section, you'll find my posts about some of my experiences with various powders.  After much testing, I've determined that, if their is such a thing as "the 10mm load" then 10.4 gr of Blue Dot, with just about any decent 180 gr bullet, is it...at least for accuracy. 

It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
Velocity is only about 1170-1200 f.p.s.
The ES and SD numbers are way up there.
It doesn't flow through any of my powder measures "like water", more like gravel.
The muzzle flash is...impressive.

However, I've not found any powder/bullet combo that will match it for accuracy.  My "standard 10mm load" is Xtreme's 180 gr HP in Starline brass, lit with a standard large pistol primer. (CCI, Win, Fed, S&B, etc)

I still experiment with other powders, but I always end up coming back to Blue Dot.

Jeff 

[rognp]

Im finding much the same, althogh Ive had some good luck with LS and 200mgr. The negative is the fliers that seem to exist in every group. Blue dot even at 11.4 seems consistant and accurate. This is witha LW 6.02" barrel.

[Plunker]

With my OLD eyes accuracy is hard, easier going over a Choney. Want to believe that a good ES & SD will give good accuracy (will in theory). Power Pistol does best with lighter bullets, light to Med. loads in most calibers.

I have not tried 155 gr yet, but got a 1000 on order. Will try with PP first.

On the 180's with BD, 10.4 was my best load too, 1156 fps, ES: 34, SD: 12.44 (these #'s are after deleting one flyer, 1114 fps). 10.2 close behind it. With 200 gr. bullets 800X did the best. 800X don't do as good with the lighter bullets, but figured it wouldn't, does best heavier bullets and loads. Meters like corn flakes too. I like 800X in magnum loads (does real well in 357 Mag. & 44 Mag. heavier bullets)

Best BD with 200 gr. was 9.4, 1058 fps., ES 42, SD 16.83. Might be a good woods load.

I've just tried PP & BD for 10mm so far, but will expand shortly. Have CFE Pistol & 231 I'm looking at.

Most of my brass is mixed. As just to shoot, not worried about it. For primers, settled on Winchester WLP. So I don't need to match the primer to a powder.  (I buy my SD rounds, don't 'make' them)

[Plunker]

fltbed, question, what 155 gr bullets you using?   I just ordered a 1000 for 40's, but they are not heavy plated, so will not use them on 10's, as they WILL be over 1200 fps.

[fltbed]

fltbed, question, what 155 gr bullets you using?   I just ordered a 1000 for 40's, but they are not heavy plated, so will not use them on 10's, as they WILL be over 1200 fps.

Mostly jacketed HP's (unknown JHP I've had taking up space in the reloading room) but also some all copper bullets from COP and some Federal expanding FMJ's.

Jeff