Underwood Xtreme Penetrator/Xtreme Defender testing

[sqlbullet]

SPDSR, they revised the Defender shape and they no longer overpenetrate to 25", at least for the calibers I have seen tested.

I agree we need more testing and more field results.  The later probably will never come unless a major department adopts the round.

But, the physics of the premise putting all the energy into the target instead of a part of it into deforming the bullet sounds good to me.

[Rojo27]

99% of the "research" on almost any handgun projectile I can think of is anecdotal.  Certainly formal studies like Dr. Gary Roberts have contributed greatly.  However, speaking for myself, work published over last 5 or 6 years by people like TNOUTDOORS9, SHOOTINGTHEBULL410, POCKETGUNSANDGEAR, LUCKYGUNNER, and our own member Andrew at  THECHOPPINGBLOCK & TFB have been incredibly beneficial in shedding light and comparing how different projectiles perform in standard media.  Most of the useful information I've learned about Federal HST, Gold Dots, XTP,  ect, ect. came from these sources. 

It'd be fantastic to finally see someone dedicated to adhering to strict scientific methodology for testing terminal ballistics of handgun projectiles (of my choice) freely publish their work. 
Until then, for better or worse we're largely left with YouTube.

[SPDSR]

I think some of the YouTube testing is very informative. The main issue is people do not seem to comprehend how to interpret shots in gel. It measures penetration, final diameter and final weight. If the round does not expand, it measures penetration and final weight and nothing more. There are no wound track measurements or stretch cavities. Basically ignore anything other than the final projectile.

[Spudmeister]

An interesting thread.  So often we speak as though there were a direct relationship between ballistic gel and people.  But ballistic gel is easy to replicate and visualize so it's gets all the video time.  The fact that the FBI set the standards means no more than if Mickey Mouse did it.  After a while it is easy to forget there is ZERO direct relationship between ballistic gel and making bad guys stop being bad.  Before the ballistic gel we went thru the same mental "leap" with water jugs.  Before that was wet newspaper.  Way before that the test medium was live animals and cadavers.  Just what is considered "best" has become more like a religion than science.  Every generation has their "new improved theory" as to what works best.  If there were any definitive hard direct relationship science with what makes bad guys stop it would be a lot clearer.  But what stops one guy seems to only speed up the next guy.  Humans are profoundly more complicated than any test medium.  It makes fantastic conversation mostly because everybody has an opinion that can be supported in some way.   

I applaud Lehigh for their nerve to enter a very difficult market as an upstart company.  They are great marketers and are responsive to the interests of the shooting/reloading community.  They make a good and very interesting line of products.  Making use of both the forward energy and the rotational energy of a bullet in tissue is brilliant.  It has long been a balance in handguns that the limited energy of a bullet needs to be reduced even more with energy required for expansion.  Hard cast bullets don't have these problem (they have their own problems).  The Lehigh Defense Extreme bullets go one step further and use their petals to dig into tissue and use rotational energy to open the wound.  Or so it would seem.  I have no idea how it works in the real world but nobody with first hand knowledge seems to be complaining about them. 

But again, I do not know what is best.  I have opinions too and don't really care for the Extreme bullet thing.  It is an impressive read though. 

[SPDSR]

They don't use rotational energy or dig anything into anywhere lol. It doesn't work that way. The bullet doesn't spin differently. And while certainly not perfect, proper testing protocols with real ballistic gel actually does have a strong correlation to human wounding, in penetration and expanded diameter.

[Rojo27]

They don't use rotational energy or dig anything into anywhere lol.

Are you a Scientist, Physicist, Ballistian, MD, Dentist or just naturally that much smarter than everyone else that your opinion trumps others?  If so, please share your credentials so we'll all know to extend your deserved deference.
Your kinda new here and it may have escaped your attention this is a pretty civil forum where admirers of the 10mm come to share information, seek feedback, give perspective and learn.  You'll find members generally stay respectul of each other.  There are a hell of a lot of pretty experienced and sharp people frequent this site.
You've more than clearly outlined your opinion....  These particular projects hold no interest for you.  Got it, now please let the merits of your views stand up to scrutiny without being dismissive or argumentative of other members perspectives.