Oregon Shooting

[pacapcop]

Well it is a stolen weapon.Waiting for more info on shooter.No jams are good for good purposes,but he had a jam on the beloved AR15.

[sqlbullet]

For those wanting more details:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/12/justice/oregon-mall-shooting/index.html

[The_Shadow]

Yes, yet another tragedy on this side the world. I often wonder as I make my way around town, what would I do if a situation such as this were to unfold around me. Given the way our judicial system works and the sue happy lawyers, stepping in to take out a shooter could prove to be very costly decision.
Some of these incidents take place fairly quickly, without much interaction as they just start to spry projectiles to satisfy their delusional state of mind...greed, jealousy, revenge or just non-specific targeted actions of outrage. Then having mulitple people drawing guns leaves law enforcement or you with deciding who's the real threat. There are many gang related issuses being acted out in public places these days, some of which is initiation oriented. The youth of today have grown up with the Violence of the Video Game World, I see this as part of the acting out and the attacks where they have no respect for anyone, not law enforcement and not even themselves...but they are not banning the video games are they! Very sad times to see the miss guided rebelous youth with no family values turning to drugs, crime and acts of violence.

However if the threat presented itself, I would act protect my family and myself. Sometimes taking a position of cover or leaving an area makes more sense than having deal with a crazed indivdual or even a gang!

[pacapcop]

Well said Shadow.I often go over that scenerio of a shooter dumping rounds.Body armor is getting to be the norm.

[harrygunner]

Was thinking about these kinds of events and what they are showing those looking for a "Perfect Day". Few of these perps are stopped by CCW holders.

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/3358649-The-perfect-day-and-our-terrorist-opponents-possible-plans/

CCW holders are a small percentage of the population and won't be everywhere. And some hold the defensible opinion that they are not LEO and will only defend family and self. I'm not wanting to suggest permit holders should take up this responsibility.

Just noticing that while an enemy may be aware the U.S. has  lots of privately owned guns, they are also being shown that is  of little consequence in "Perfect Day" planning.

[The_Shadow]

The main thing is remaining constantly aware of your souroundings, as a firefighter in my town, I have drawn floor plans of and have been inside, even areas not accessable by the general public and outside to including the roofs of all the buildings in my area.  This was deligent pre incident planning for our department.  While I am retired now this has over the years provided me with quite a knowledge of the places, where I shop, dine or browse these places I am aware, of anything and everything.  Heck some stores actually wonder and watch me as I move about because I am being so observant still!

This time of year people are feeling the pressures of the holiday season, trying to cope with many issues.  The criminal element is no different, as they move about looking for easy targets of opportunity...if you senses are peaked there might be a reason to reasses where you are and what is going on around you!

[sqlbullet]

Yeah...The type of thinking and situational awareness everyone ought to have is not common.

Case in point today at lunch.  As I was walking back out of the burger place suddenly a guy in front of me stopped and became the guy behind me.  I immediately took two steps to the side and gave him a look.  Not an unfriendly one, just a glance to ensure I knew where he was and that he knew I knew where he was.

I doubt he had any untoward intent, but none-the-less, this kind of thinking and SA will prevent a bunch of assaults from ever starting.

[EdMc]

Like Shadow mentioned, gang activity is common in this area, but most is confined to black on black. Or, gangbangers on convenience store owner/workers. This week an old man (70+) in a wheelchair bumped into a woman's SUV with his w/chair at a gas station.......she got out of the vehicle...... and he shot her. She died later at the local Med Center. I guess my point is you have to look out for almost anything happening.

[Rick1987]

I think if I was in a situation I would try to escape rather than be a hero. Being from MA I would be in a world of trouble if I intervened.

Now if I was in a situation like the movie theatre shooting I would take him down. At that point my life was in danger and no way to exit safely.

Until they pass a federal law protecting law abiding citizens from prosecution for helping to take down a criminal in the act of a crime. I will run away unless myself or my loved ones are in danger.

[pacapcop]

Practice those head shots.

[sqlbullet]

Practice those head shots.

I am not sure I see your point here.  Neither the Colorado shooter nor this guys was actually wearing a vest capable of stopping a round.  In both cases they were tactical vests which lay people mistook for some kind of bullet resistant material.

And even in that case, training should still be the traditional two center body mass, assess and if the threat persists two to the body and one to the head.

I agree that the ability to make a head shot is a valuable skill, but I think it should be incorporated into time and experience proven tactics.

Of course, most people I see shooting when I go are practicing neither marksmanship or headshots.  They are making a gun go bang for fun.

[The_Shadow]

Practice those head shots.

Of course, most people I see shooting when I go are practicing neither marksmanship or headshots.  They are making a gun go bang for fun.

Gang Bangers, Video Gamers and Zombie Apocalypse videophiles, just spray & pray bullets & shoot without a thought process of who is where, what are the consequences...that is what makes them dangerous!  No rhyme or reason!  Law enforcement trying to bring a situation under control with people pre-programmed like that can get shot at trying to stop a situation from escalating...This is why I say protect your family and yourself the best way possible, and let the police handle the situation!
The legal ramifications are not in favor of you being a hero until the threat has left you no other way out!

[pacapcop]

I did not know they were only Tac Vests.Thanks

[The_Shadow]

Things do happen fast...and anywhere!  Be on your gaurd, do what you need to do where ever you go, get in get out, be prepared!  This stuff is very real!
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?96181-Fight-crime-by-fighting-back-Great-vid-pro-gun&p=1146934#post1146934

[chainlink]

I agree at the range I see many just sending rounds down range. Many ranges don't allow  you to draw from concealment and shoot. I  have been to many where they  don't even offer targets with CNS zones minus head shots.
I used to be able to draw from concealment  and  fire, now I shoot in one place and practice my draw from concealment at home. I personally have no desire to be a hero or shot at, but I have some peace of mind  that at least armed I may have the tool or tools to defend  myself till the end.