Defender Ammo 155gr Hornady XTP (supplied by Blades 9/2017)

[The_Shadow]

Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Defender Ammo 155gr Hornady XTP (supplied by Blades 9/2017)
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: fps  (est 1250 fps)
Muzzle Energy: ft. lbs (est 537)
Brass Make/Headstamp: Jag - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5525"/Dia. 0.4000": 155gr Hornady XTP
Actual weigh 155.2 / 155.4 grains / Flat base / Crimp Diameter 0.3980" 
HP Dia 0.1625" / HP Depth 0.1825" tapered / Mouth 0.2400" (six segments)
C.O.A.L.: 1.2500" / 1.2520" / 1.2520" / 1.2515" / 1.2525"
Primer: Large Pistol Primer Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4220" Crimp Diameter 0.4210" (medium crimp)Length 0.9870"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight:  Ramshot Silhouette 8.6 grains * 
*Second pull down was the same and both checked on the beam scale as well...
Cartridge total weight 242.2 / 242.2 / 242.6 / 242.6 / 242.8

[REDLINE]

Too weak for me.  Hornady's factory load is faster, though it costs more too.

[The_Shadow]

I am still studying this loading, with further research the powder may actually be Hodgdon CFE Pistol which would put the velocity around 1325-1335 fps.  When I get a chance to go to the range and test I will run a CFE Pistol powder load against the original just to see how they relate.  The original Defender had no velocity data, and to me it seems that Silhouette is a finer flatten ball than this powder.      

[REDLINE]

Overkill said he inquired about the velocity and Defender emailed him back and said they are advertised at 1325 fps from a 5" barrel. His post saying that is here; http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/defender-ammunition-10mm-155-grain-horandy-xtp-(limited-run)/

I agree on CFE over Silhouette.  I just looked at them both side by side on a piece of paper at my desk.  Even though both powders contained just as small of granules as the other, CFE has many more larger granules overall (another third to half again bigger over the biggest granules in Silhouette).  CFE had far fewer perfectly round flattened discs, maybe only 10-15% (if that) worth of all the granules, and looking under a magnifying glass (6X and 10X) even many of those aren't as nicely polished round as the ones in Silhouette.  Where Silhouette seemed to have easily over half or so very round granules with smoother polished looking edges around the circumference of the disc.  This would be hard to tell without both side by side, but CFE is a little darker in color than Silhouette.  Like CFE is a bit more charcoalish in color and Silhouette is a bit more medium-gray/silvery. Though probably not as much as that last color description makes it sound. They are practically equal in weight by volume.


The load data at Hodgdon's website says;
155gr XTP, Winchester LP Primer, C.O.L.=1.260", 5" Barrel
8.2gr CFE = 1269 fps @ 26,300 PSI (starting load)
9.2gr CFE = 1409 fps @ 34,900 PSI (maximum load)

The load data at Ramshot's website says;
155gr XTP, Winchester LP Primer, C.O.L.=1.260", 5" Barrel
8.8gr Silhouette = 1255 fps @ NO LISTED PSI (start load)
9.7gr Silhouette = 1355 fps @ 35,400 PSI (MAX load)

In my own testing of CFE and Silhouette with a 200gr XTP;  my results with half a grain more Silhouette show Silhouette with a velocity equal to CFE at lower pressures. Then at higher pressure loads Silhouette averaged an advantage of 10-15 FPS (still a half grain powder advantage of Silhouette).  I only did 5 shot groups of each charge though, so who knows.  My results definitely don't jive with the manufacturer's claims listed above though.  Then again maybe they act differently with different weight bullets too, I don't know.  My testing was with all brand new brass, same primers, same COL, insanely accurately weighed powder charge weights on a beam scale, all tested on the same day in the same gun,...

With Defender claiming 1325 fps from a 5" barrel with what you found to be 8.6 grains of ?, CFE does seem plausible.  That's partly if their 1325 fps claim is an honest one (not saying it isn't, just not betting the farm on it).  It's hard to tell without us testing it out on our own, because at least for me I generally take the manufacturers published numbers with some skepticism.  Like with the velocities, there could easily be anywhere from a 10-25 fps extreme spread or so, and what number are they giving us?  A high?, a low?, an average?, and out of how many fired?  Not to mention I've come across plenty of manufacturer PSI claims over the years that don't seem to correlate with each other.  But here I am rambling.  I'll  now.

If you can find the time for a comparison I'll be interested in seeing the results.  Thanks for all the time you put into these pull downs to begin with!

[The_Shadow]

Redline that's the thing, Defender's web page never listed the velocity for their loading for the 155 XTP's, their values for the 180 FN is 1100/5" and 180 HP is shown as 1200/5".
Yes Jason said that they were 1325 via e-mail...yet another reason for my continued study here.
Your right about what the powder shows, Silhouette is a blended powder which used to be the same as the older Winchester Action Pistol and picked up by Western Powders.  Silhouette seams to have undergone some changes that doesn't help with things.  (Just as the A#9 has changed in formulations)   The CFE lacks those tiny round beads.
I will learn more when I get them over chronograph.  Soon I hope...

Been playing catch up as I was invited to hunt locally, putting in time, clearing things, putting out feeders and building a new deer hunting box stand between weather events and my back that has me wondering why I am going to do this hunting thing again...  The new box stand is ready to haul out to the location and the cooler weather has arrived down here to help.

[Intercooler]

Just added these to the sheet. Any part number or Chronograph numbers for these?