G20 & G27 KaBoom's

[DM1906]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=J2lGyHrtplc


could have shown more but it's a waste of time. They all do the same thing. April's cure is to send them all in at my expense (already sent 3 of them and they hosed that up). David's cure is to "have one of his "techs" look at them all..because he doesn't have the time and that's not what he does."  He also wants the whole gun..which I replied should I send in all 4 guns they don't work/fit in??? lol

I'm not bitter or mad or trying to be a dink. The above is exactly what they said. I just think it's sad and frustrating, because they seem to have the ability (machinery) to make a hell of a barrel. The cuts on them are beautiful...they obviously must have a very high dollar cnc.

My only problems with them are they haven't figured out the feed ramp yet to get reliable feeding into their super tight chambers. The black coating just makes this worse.  And they have this weird quirk where the slide is slightly retracted on all of them...at least the 7 barrels I have which are all for the glock 20 and glock 29. I can not speak for any other models.

btw they did not offer to exchange the barrels. they did offer to refund the purchase price if I could produce a receipt...which is no problem on the 3 I bought from my dealer but the rest of them I'm S O L. 

The whole thing is just a sad frustrating waste of time and effort.

Good video.  Are you certain the slide lock is installed correctly?  What direction is the "hook" edge facing?  Can you unlock the slide w/o pulling rearward?  If it's backwards, it will cause what you are seeing, moreso with some barrels.  With my OEM barrels, it's barely noticeable at all.

[MrRedbull616]

the locking lug was my guess.   Which basically means that every 10mm bbl coming out of SLB right now is being cut wrong....cuz none of them fit correctly (all slightly retracted) on 2 early gen 3 frames a brand new gen3 frame and my buddy had a Gen4 G21 frame (same as 20) which it also did the same thing.

I tried to explain this to David but I honestly think it went right over his head.  I'm not trying to say the guy is a dummy but he just didn't get it...I just don't get the feeling he knows much about barrel making. I'm guessing that is why he referred to his "tech" looking at them and he doesn't do that". 

Bottom line to me is I don't really care - all I know is the barrels don't fit right and I've already spent a lot of time polishing up the chambers and sending the 3 barrels back because they weren't done correctly to begin with.

barrel 1 - 6" - would barely feed - they opened up the ramp just a tiny bit
barrel 2 - 4.6" black finish - would not feed at all - they opened up ramp just a tiny bit - helped but the chamber is so tight due to the coating...until I polished it several times (mirror finish) ...it barely runs well now.
barrel 3 - 4.6 ss finish - sent me a G21-10mm conv but marked G20.  Also didn't feed well.   All they did was cut the breach to fit the G20 like it should but did not address that it didn't feed well. 

I've polished the chambers and ramps all to a mirror shine to get them as good as they are which isn't that good. I've also burned up a bucnh of ammo trying to get them to work.   let's just say david was not moved by my efforts or expenditure of 10mm ammo to try and get his barrels to work.

I'm not trying to be on here bad mouthing SLB.  This was my experience. Like I said it's sad and frustrating because they seem to have the machinery to make some awesome barrels.

[MrRedbull616]

yeah I'm sure on that.

I thought it might be a number of things but everything produced same result. Also that new frame I showed in the video is straight out of the box unfired...never messed with etc etc...yielding same results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=J2lGyHrtplc


could have shown more but it's a waste of time. They all do the same thing. April's cure is to send them all in at my expense (already sent 3 of them and they hosed that up). David's cure is to "have one of his "techs" look at them all..because he doesn't have the time and that's not what he does."  He also wants the whole gun..which I replied should I send in all 4 guns they don't work/fit in??? lol

I'm not bitter or mad or trying to be a dink. The above is exactly what they said. I just think it's sad and frustrating, because they seem to have the ability (machinery) to make a hell of a barrel. The cuts on them are beautiful...they obviously must have a very high dollar cnc.

My only problems with them are they haven't figured out the feed ramp yet to get reliable feeding into their super tight chambers. The black coating just makes this worse.  And they have this weird quirk where the slide is slightly retracted on all of them...at least the 7 barrels I have which are all for the glock 20 and glock 29. I can not speak for any other models.

btw they did not offer to exchange the barrels. they did offer to refund the purchase price if I could produce a receipt...which is no problem on the 3 I bought from my dealer but the rest of them I'm S O L. 

The whole thing is just a sad frustrating waste of time and effort.

Good video.  Are you certain the slide lock is installed correctly?  What direction is the "hook" edge facing?  Can you unlock the slide w/o pulling rearward?  If it's backwards, it will cause what you are seeing, moreso with some barrels.  With my OEM barrels, it's barely noticeable at all.

[REDLINE]

I have 7 storm lake barrels. None of them fit correctly in my 3 Glock 20s.  Slide is slightly retracted on all of them.  I don't know if that is the reason why they feed for crap (i've already sent some of them back once and personally polished the hell out of the chamber) or the super tight chamber or combo of both.

hood length

SLB 6" = 1.3345
glock factory 4.6"  = 1.3350
lone wolf 5.2 threaded  = 1.3360
SLB 357sig conv = 1.3355

so that's not it.

After what I all quoted you on above it got me curious toward comparing my own barrels for my G20.  Those are limited to the stock 4.6" barrel and my new Storm Lake 6.02" barrel.  What became obvious pretty quickly was how there's barely a cut on either barrel that's the same.  Clearly in the lug area of both barrels there are many differences, where in most cases, there is simply more steel left on the SLB.

I also quickly noted the same as you in regard to the SLB holding the slide further back as my pics clearly show just like in your video.  What I can't figure out is which cut(s) cause this, not that I spent a whole ton of time trying to figure it out.  My main food-for-thought to convey, right or wrong (I really have no clue), is I'm wondering if you realized how differently all the way around the SLB is cut compared to the stock G20 barrel.  That being considered, I wonder if there's anything SL could even do about simply recutting one of their barrels toward it not holding back the slide to any different extent than the stock G20 barrel does.  I feel like I'm kinda seeing why the one guy at SL suggested to you having one of his technical gurus having a look.  Again, just a bunch of speculation from me that isn't even necessarily worth a whole 2 cents.

I took the following pics for all to see what's different and what's not (BTW, clearly we aren't coming up with the same "hood lengths");




















If anyone comes up with differences from what my measurements or pics show, exactly or in general, please post them for comparison.  I'm very curious to see what differences we collectively may come across with our different Glock 20 Storm Lake Barrels.

[REDLINE]

After reviewing the following pic I feel it's clear that the lugs on the SLB extend further toward the end of the barrel (the end the bullet exits).  I do realize that I don't have the barrels lined up perfectly in the pics, but I still think I'm correct.  I'll be happy to stand corrected if someone can point out otherwise.  But from what I'm discerning from the pic, it's the lugs of the SLB holding the slide further back compared to what the stock Glock barrel does.  Any agreement on this?

[MrRedbull616]

I agree, but good luck getting them to believe you or understand what is going...well now that it's posted on a forum they might take notice.  But I made a video for them and wrote it all out before and they (David-owner and April) just didn't comprehend it.

Their response to me was completely unprofessional. Like I said it was frustrating and sad. Aren't the cuts on the SLB barrel beautiful??!!?  Anyway, I will not buy from or deal with them until attitudes are changed.

[The_Shadow]

RedLine, Great pictures!  I still think it is a combination of the front of the step where it fits inside the slide and the locking lug where it cams, this could be very small differences that "stone polishing" maybe need to adjust the fit.

The barrels would need some sort of fixture to maintain references to take such small measurements in relation to angles and bearing surfaces in relation to the locking block and slide stop to barrel fit.

The benefit would be better dwell timing for positive lock up, to keep the slide and barrel locked slightly longer so pressures can drop off before ejection cycle starts to actually increase the unsupported casing issue where smiles occur.

[denclaste]

Storm Lake barrel purchased from Midway USA September 2012 for G20; factory barrel replacement.
Hood: OAL= 1.3355" width= 0.6456" height(measured from top down to shoulder cut at lug)= 0.627"
Lugs measure 0.379" across
Barrel measured at root/center/end = 0.6291"/0.6293"/0.6291"
Overall fit impressions:
Mine seems to be a slight bit tighter fit at the hood from your what your pictures show. I have slight rub marks on the sides and top of my chamber block; no marks on lugs under 10x magnification. Very slight rub marks on the front half of barrel runnig around the entire barrel. Lock up is TIGHT; I dont have feeler gauges small enought to measure but no movement at all when hand pressure is applied to hood or barrel with slide retracted.
This barrel has had 535 rounds of near max handloads run thru it without a failure. I must have finally been sucessful in getting a firearms part that actually works as intended.
I hope you find out whats causing your problems and can get it fixed (and not on your $$).
Dennis

[The_Shadow]

At RedBull's request about more info to describe the issues I sent this to him.

Man I am not sure if this is what you want or need...
Barrel to Slide this is the opening in the slide that accepts the barrel hood and front step.  (these all looked like they fit that opening even though the aftermarket barrels measure slightly longer from the hood to the step)

This leaves the mating surfaces of the barrel lug where it engauges the locking block mounted in the frame and the slide stop.

The barrel is cammed upward on the Locking Block as the Slide and Barrel move forward, to to keep it high enough to maintain the Slide & Barrel engagement.

Also there are corrosponding areas on the Barrel Lug for placement of the slide as it engages the Locking Block. [this maybe the area that is holding the slide back and not allowing full forward engagement]

Then there is a part of the Barrel Lug that engages the Slide Stop. (this is what keeps the Slide and Barrel from sliding off or forward until the Slide Stop is depressed to release the unit to be taken down)  [This could also be part of the issue holding the Slide & Barrel back from its full forward lockup]

All of these mating surfaces, notches and angles of the Barrel Lug, in relation to their fit with the Locking Block and Slide Stop, are what controls the dwell timing and proper function.

I hope this helps to explain some of what might be going on in the issues you all are seeing.

Some of these areas are difficult to deal with because they inside the frame and under the slide when the gun is assymbled, this is why I mention some kind of fixture to accurately take measurements of angles and mating surfaces to look for the differences as compared to the stock barrel. 

Adding more...
The area infront of the step (flat area horizonal to the bore) if reduced can allow the barrel to move higher into the slide, this small change can affect the other areas as the barrel is cammed even higher, thus may allow further forwad engagement of the slide.  Small changes...there and it changes the rest also!

[The_Shadow]

Also look and read about issues here...
http://www.ccfraceframes.com/faq-barrels.html

[MrRedbull616]

ha  after reading the CCF thing I'm not sure what to do anymore! lol

[EdMc]

Excellent article Shadow......I'd noticed the barrel lugs on my LW did not have the same machined profiles as the stk barrel. Perhaps I should look more closely....

[LeMat]

Also look and read about issues here...
http://www.ccfraceframes.com/faq-barrels.html

Quite possibly the most interesting article on aftermarket barrel's I've read.  Thanks!

[Yondering]

After reviewing the following pic I feel it's clear that the lugs on the SLB extend further toward the end of the barrel (the end the bullet exits).  I do realize that I don't have the barrels lined up perfectly in the pics, but I still think I'm correct.  I'll be happy to stand corrected if someone can point out otherwise.  But from what I'm discerning from the pic, it's the lugs of the SLB holding the slide further back compared to what the stock Glock barrel does.  Any agreement on this?

Redline, this surface (indicated by the arrows in the pic) is what is holding your slide back. This lug is what controls the fore/aft position of the slide in lockup. It mates to the slide lock / takedown plate; if the barrel lugs don't fit the cut in the plate, it will set the slide back. Or if the lug is just too long.

[MrRedbull616]

oh man that's stupid simple.  how can they not know this!