I Need 6 Inches of Steel

[Yondering]

Shadow and DM1906 are correct about my post above. Nothing dangerous or scary about loading 40 long; loading to "10mm specs" includes OAL, if you missed that in my post.

For those who don't understand, but might want to, this picture shows a long loaded 40 S&W next to a 10mm, both loaded to 1.260" with the same 180gr FMJ bullet. Powder capacity is the same for both. The differences are lower neck tension for the long loaded 40, and the smaller primer, these result in lower pressure and about 50 fps less velocity, compared to the same load in the 10mm case.

[gandog56]

Still would NOT do it, and advise others no to!

[sqlbullet]

I would advise most not too.  But that doesn't mean what Yondering is doing is not safe, it just is not for anyone who might have to ask about doing it.

If a given reloader isn't knowledgable enough to know the answer to the question "Is this safe/Should I try?", then they don't know enough to handle the answer they might get, and may do something in their ignorance that endangers themselves or others.

But, Yondering has a good handle on things.  I don't think we are likely to see him posting pictures of his disembodied fingers.

[gandog56]

I'll bet Yondering couldn't even truly answer "is this really safe to do"? Why take the chance. I mean there is such a thing as a 10mm gun.....and a 10mm Magnum, even.

[RMM]

Why did you not go with a factory 6" Glock barrel?
I have nothing against the aftermarket barrels I am just curious why you did not see that as an option.

I did think about the factory Glock barrel.  It is attractive for several reasons; you know that the fit/finish will be good, you know that the reliability will be the same as stock.  The chamber dimensions are the same as stock.  It is probably the most reliable option.

I wanted the better case support for longer brass life, and the ability to run lead/dry lube bullets. 

[DM1906]

I'll bet Yondering couldn't even truly answer "is this really safe to do"? Why take the chance. I mean there is such a thing as a 10mm gun.....and a 10mm Magnum, even.

No one is trying to convince you of anything, or trying to encourage you to do anything you don't feel is safe.  Know that, first.  I will, however, answer the "is this really safe to do" question.  It is, in the environment he is in, or I may be in.  The math, science and physics are in order.  It may not be in your environment.  You've also said you don't like Glock pistols, and you would never own one.  Many people do, but it doesn't make you wrong.  We experienced handloaders do many things that aren't "recommended", and I'd bet Yondering, like me, does many things that will never be discussed on an open forum, such as here.  Someone who lacks the knowledge and experience will try things despite the warnings, and someone will get hurt.  We know that, and choose our discussions carefully.  This is not the case with the "long .40's".  All things being equal, it's no more "unsafe" than under any other "normal" condition, using recommended practices.  It is what it is.

Add to that......
Just yesterday, I fired a few hundred rounds of .40 S&W in my "stock" Glock model 20 pistol.  This is also not "recommended".  All fired without incident.  Nothing blew up (except the reactive targets).  Also, the rounds were all cast lead handloads.  2 other no-nos, in a Glock pistol.  So, that's 3 rules broken.  The sun still came up this morning.  None of this is recommended by Glock, and I don't recommend anyone do this.  I control my environment.  I cannot control yours.  Can do and should do are not the same.  Bad things happen, even when you do everything right, as recommended.  It is what it is.

[gandog56]

Let's just say I still would NEVER overcharge a cartridge from a recipe max. Ain't gonna happen with me.

[Yondering]

Let's just say I still would NEVER overcharge a cartridge from a recipe max. Ain't gonna happen with me.

I don't think I or anyone else in this thread mentioned overcharging anything. Certainly not the long-loaded .40/10mm that I mentioned. I did attempt to explain that in my last post, but can go into more detail if it's still unclear.

gandog56, it's become clear that you have a very limited understanding of reloading and 10mm pistols in general, and that's fine, everyone starts off that way. I'll offer a suggestion though - if you can be a little less vocal and opinionated about things you don't understand, you'll find many members on this board are very helpful and willing to explain stuff, as you've seen from this thread. You might learn something.

[REDLINE]

Let's just say I still would NEVER overcharge a cartridge from a recipe max. Ain't gonna happen with me.

I don't understand that.  First, a load has to be worked up before a suggested max recipe can be deemed safe, and if I was supposed to assume that from your comment, that's fine.  But to explain further, a max book recipe may be too much for anyone's individual platform of choice, and therefore in some cases isn't always safe anyway. 

Second, many times there is no reason not to work up beyond max within some reason because most max recipes don't hit max PSI for the 10mm Auto cartridge as designated by SAAMI.  So sometimes, if there are no discernable over pressure sign(s) at a given max recipe there's little reason to not carefully work up a max recipe load further (till at least a faint sign of a reason to stop is experienced), especially in the case of some platforms with excellent chamber support (T/C G2 Contender, Kimber 1911, S&W Model 610,...among others, not to mention the added support some aftermarket barrels offer over stock setups).

Third, as an example of another reason to SAFELY consider going to some extent beyond a max recipe(s) (assuming it was safe working up to them in the first place) look at the following sources, many using the same bullet and powder:

Hodgdon Powder Company max recipe for a Hornady 155 grain XTP bullet;
COL = 1.260", Primer = Winchester Large Pistol, IMR 800-X powder charge = 9.8 grains  (claimed to reach 1350 FPS from a 5" barrel and hit 30,000 PSI)

4th Edition Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading for a Hornady 155 grain XTP bullet;
COL = 1.260", Primer = Winchester Large Pistol, IMR 800-X powder charge = 9.9 grains  (claimed to reach 1300 FPS from a 5" barrel in a Colt Delta Elite)

6th Edition Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading for a Hornady 155 grain XTP bullet;
COL = 1.260", Primer = Winchester Large Pistol, IMR 800-X powder charge = 11.5 grains (claimed to reach 1350 FPS from a 5" barrel in a Colt Delta Elite)

Hornady Factory Load for their 155 grain XTP bullet;
COL = 1.253", Primer = unknown, Unknown Powder powder charge = 10.1 grains (claimed to reach 1265 FPS)
Further details and a pic of the powder can be viewed here -  http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/disected-hornady-155gr-180gr-win-silvertip-175gr-blazer-200gr-and-dt-135gr/

Underwood Ammunition Factory Load for a Hornady 155 grain XTP bullet;
COL = 1.252", Primer = unknown, IMR 800-X powder charge = 10.8 grains (claimed to reach 1500 FPS, DRSJR1969 on YouTube achieved 1492 FPS average from a G20 that had a Lone Wolf 4.6" barrel installed)
Further details and a pics can be viewed here -  http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/


Bottomline with the above examples is that many times there are more than one max recipe to consider, not to mention further data from factory loads.  Some with all pertinent information, and some not.  Either way, there's commonly lots of data to consider before anyone needs to assume it is unsafe to go beyond a max recipe.  More often than not there is little reason to not go forward with further SAFE experimentation beyond suggested max recipes.

[DM1906]

Well said, gentlemen.

Yondering's "long .40" cartridge is a wildcat, of sorts.  Not unlike the 9mm Parabellum, vs. the original Luger (they are not the same, originally).  Wildcats are the progressive technology advancement of cartridges.  The rules are different, but the science is the same.  I've developed dozens of wildcats over the years, most of them flops, some just ridiculous (and fun), but never violating the science.  That's how it goes.

[gandog56]

What, you've never pinched a 50 BMG neck down to .17" ?   

[sqlbullet]

From time to time I get the idea I need a 22 eargesplitten loudenboomer.

[REDLINE]

I'm still trying to picture a 378 Wby Mag necked down to .224".  I wonder what barrel length they used to get the 4600 FPS.  Too bad they couldn't reach the goal with a measly additional 400 FPS.

[DM1906]

What, you've never pinched a 50 BMG neck down to .17" ?   

It was one of the flops.

[gandog56]

I'm still trying to picture a 378 Wby Mag necked down to .224".  I wonder what barrel length they used to get the 4600 FPS.  Too bad they couldn't reach the goal with a measly additional 400 FPS.

I imagine barrels erode pretty darned fast at 4600 fps!