230 grain .45 vs 200 grain 10mm penetration and for bears/ hogs

[BillinOregon]

Sep, you must be talking about Phil Shoemaker and the brownie that threatened his fishing clients.

[5pins]

Here is a test I did with the .45 ACP in Clear Gel using a 230gr Winchester ball, a 230gr ball handload, and a 200gr Xtreme penetrators. The 230gr ball loads both penetrated deeper than the Lehigh Xtreme.

I plan on doing some 10mm and .45 using the 190gr and 200gr Cutting Edge bullets soon.


http://www.general-cartridge.com/blog/https-generalcartridge-files-wordpress-com-2017-08-zt3pah3-jpg-w-1374

[4949shooter]

Here is a test I did with the .45 ACP in Clear Gel using a 230gr Winchester ball, a 230gr ball handload, and a 200gr Xtreme penetrators. The 230gr ball loads both penetrated deeper than the Lehigh Xtreme.

I plan on doing some 10mm and .45 using the 190gr and 200gr Cutting Edge bullets soon.


http://www.general-cartridge.com/blog/https-generalcartridge-files-wordpress-com-2017-08-zt3pah3-jpg-w-1374

Interesting results. Perhaps the "flutes" in the Lehigh bullet tend to slow it down some.

[Rojo27]

Here is a test I did with the .45 ACP in Clear Gel using a 230gr Winchester ball, a 230gr ball handload, and a 200gr Xtreme penetrators. The 230gr ball loads both penetrated deeper than the Lehigh Xtreme.

I plan on doing some 10mm and .45 using the 190gr and 200gr Cutting Edge bullets soon.


http://www.general-cartridge.com/blog/https-generalcartridge-files-wordpress-com-2017-08-zt3pah3-jpg-w-1374

Thanks 5pins!  Appreciate you sharing your tests.  Been watching your stuff on AR15 & your Blog...  Keep it up!!
By the way....  You've done some testing Winchester 127gr +p+Ranger T, & 147gr Black Talon, and a couple other Winchester white box jhp (and several others)....  I'd be super interested in Winchester 147gr Ranger T out of short and longer length barrels...  I'd be happy to send you enough for a test if you'd consider running it on them.  Just PM me an address if you're interested. 
Thanks again for sharing your tests.

PS.. Your results on the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator not super surprising.  Kentucky Ballistics shot 10mm 140gr Xtreme Penetrator by Underwood, zipping along at reported 1500fps into clear ballistics gel and got between 27" and 29" on two different shots. 

[5pins]

I was going to try out the Lehigh Xtreme penetrator in 10mm until I saw Kentucky ballistics and The Chopping Blocks test of them.
Like 4949 mentioned, I think the flutes may actually reduce penetration.

The Cutting Edge bullets I ordered should come in tomorrow so hopefully, I can load some up this weekend. If possible I will try to shoot them next week.

Thanks for the offer on the ammo but I already have a bunch of stuff I want to try out.   

[sqlbullet]

That is the idea of the flutes...They deliver energy to the target that a FMJ round nose won't....Energy that come from the velocity budget and reduces penetration.

I think the idea is it will penetrate hard barriers better than a traditional JHP, while still delivering more tissue damage than an FMJ, not that it out-penetrates an FMJ.

[blaster]

semi wadcutter bullets are better than round nose bullets for hunting or woods defense. they penetrate deep and cut a caliber sized hole through flesh & bone. before I got my 10mm , I carried my .45 acp loaded with 200 gr. LSWC bullets and a max. charge of Unique.  I would load SWC bullets for my 10 mm if I could find them. at least the 10mm solids have a flat meplat to transfer energy better than a plain round nose bullet.

[5pins]

Kreane asked about using the .45 ACP instead of the 10mm for penetration and for bears/ hogs, so here we are.

The cartridge on your left is a .45 ACP loaded with a 200gr Cutting Edge HG Solid. The cartridge in the middle is a .45 ACP loaded with a 200gr Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator, and the cartridge on the right is a 10mm loaded with a 190gr Cutting Edge HG Solid.

As always, I'm what you call a professional so don't try this at home. LOL.


      

[Rojo27]

   Hilarious!   Gotta dig the Paul Harrell tie in!  Now after each and every shot if you would be so kind as to come to a complete stop, lower the firearm and turn 180 degrees to the camera to announce the velocity.  Then take the time to turn back raise the firearm; aim; fire & repeat whole process 5 or six times for each load being tested you'd be an extra special professional too.

Looking forward to your results.

[RJM52]

5pins...do you know yet what the velocity is or that will be determined when you shoot the gel...any approximates?

My guess is that since the 190 10mm has greater sectional density and probably velocity than the 200 grain .45s it is going to penetrate further...

If you are testing with a gel block I would have some water jugs and maybe a box of rags rags behind it...

Bob

[5pins]

5pins...do you know yet what the velocity is or that will be determined when you shoot the gel...any approximates?

My guess is that since the 190 10mm has greater sectional density and probably velocity than the 200 grain .45s it is going to penetrate further...

If you are testing with a gel block I would have some water jugs and maybe a box of rags rags behind it...

Bob

The CE HG solid in the .45 should be doing about 1000fps. I used the same load charge (8.1gr Longshot) that I use in the Lehigh XP when I shot them previously. I'm not sure about the 10mm CE. I used 8.5gr of Longshot so I'm guessing about 1100, but is a starting load and I plan on increasing it. I will run them through the chrony also. 

[kilibreaux]

About 5 years ago I converted my Glock 20 10mm to .460 Rowland by mounting a long slide with 6.6" barrel and LWD comp and testing Underwood's entire lineup.  Since that time My 10mm handguns have become safe queens, and I sold my Desert Eagle .44.  They no longer make sense compared to the .460R.  Underwood 185 gr XTP from the 34 oz G460R clocked 1,700 fps compared to 180 gr PMC .44 mag going 1,584 fps from the 72 oz DE.  I've since added a 1911 pattern Clark .460R conversion that is a pure joy to shoot and 100% reliable! I've put several hundred handloads through both pistols and they never fail to impress.  No point in pushing a 10mm when I can best it with ease with bullets up to 275 gr Hunter's HC, or Lehigh Defense 120 gr XD at a measured 2,013 fps from the big Glock!  My "mild" handloads are 185 gr RN at 1,400, and 230 gr RN at 1,300, which both guns digest without a hitch.  I can empty 8 rounds from my 1911 .460R as fast as shooting std .45 Auto from an unmodified gun, yet my 8 are carrying around 950 fpe per shot.
Anyone SERIOUS about making power from the 1911 platform should be talking .460 Rowland.  10mm who?  What?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rojo27]

Riveting yarn about the 460 Rowland.  Sounds like your next step is 500 S&W magnum.

Personally speaking,  I'll stay in the 45 & 10mm range for woods defense and hunting with semi-auto pistols and turn to the rifles if I need to get past those levels of performances.  However, wish you luck with your toys. 

[5pins]

I had a chance to run Cutting Edge bullets through the chronograph today, but had mixed results.

With the 10mm, the starting load was showing signs of pressure with slightly flat primers and smiley faces. The average velocity was 1135fps with a high of 1151fps and a low of 1126fps. This is through a Delta Elite. I'm either going to have to find another powder or drop the charge. One thing I noticed was that my firing pin hits were a little off center so I may have other issues going on.
 
The .45 was another story. I got an average of 927fps with a high of 939fps and a low of 918fps. This was the same load I use with the Lehigh bullet, but it makes since that the velocity would be lower since the CE bullet is shorter leaving more case space. No signs of pressure so I can definitely go up. I think I will try 8.3 and see what happens. This is through a Colt 1991.       

[5pins]

Tried some new loads through the chorography this morning.  I increased the .45 charge to 8.3gr of longshot and got 968fps average, 996fps high and 943fps low. Still no sign of pressure. I'm going to try 8.5fps next.

With the 10mm, things are getting stranger. I reduced the load to 8.3gr of longshot, just like the .45, but got an increase of velocity to an average 1160fps. I'm still showing signs of over pressure, maybe even more.