Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid

[Ridgerunner665]

I seem to hit a wall at about 1,275 fps no matter what powder and primer combo I use...

[Ten Ten]

I seem to hit a wall at about 1,275 fps no matter what powder and primer combo I use...

That sounds great for a long copper 190gr.

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm gonna pick back up testing these bullets.... As soon as I get a jug of blue dot.

[Alasken]

Gentleman-

I worked for CEB when we developed these bullets, and was in charge of all reloading, expansion, penetration, and accuracy testing. I also recommended all bullet weights for every caliber, including the solids.

Testing with the 10mm was very impressive. Shooting into Clear Ballistic Gel, I received the following results, from a stock Glock 20:

1.  120 HG Raptor- blades went 6+ inches,  and the Blunt Trauma Base, around 16". These are meant for personal defense.

2.  155 Barnes X- penetrated around 18" if I remember correctly.

3.  150 HG Raptor- blades same distance as the 120 Raptor, but the base did 24", as they are meant for hunting.

4.  200 Hornady XTP at full power, expanded nicely, and penetrated 20"

5.  The 190 HG Solid...Was loaded to around 1,050 fps. To be sure, I lined up three, 17" blocks of  Clear Ballistic Gel,  AND placed a foot-long section of 2x6 pine, flat against the far end of the last gel block. This was all I could fit on top of the concrete bench I was shooting across. The 2x6 barely stayed in place, held mostly by the "stickyness" of the gel.

At the shot, the 2x6 fell off the end, because even the last 17" block "jiggled" at the shot. So I walk past the 3 blocks, stepping to the far side of the table to pick up the fallen 2x6...and found it to have a quarter-inch deep dent in the face, mirroring the nose of the bullet, which was against the last gel block!

Stunned, I turned to see at my face level, at the exit end of that last block, and saw the 190 HG Solid was sticking half-way out the block!!! If it hadn't been for the 2x6, it would have exited 51" of Clear Ballistic Gel!

And remember, this was at only 1,050 fps...so no need to worry about thinking you need to get too much more speed with this bullet!

And yes, because they are longer than conventional bullets, you need to use a lighter charge weight than you would with cast or jacketed bullets, AND faster burning powders, to be abke to get enough propellant energy in the case.

Best regards, Alasken
PS- when the owner was going whitetail hunting, I loaded up 150 gr. HG Raptors to almost 2,000 fps in his Super 14 Contender .44 Magnum, using Blue Dot powder.  At 104 yards, all four blades made it to the far side on a broadside shot, and the Blunt Trauma Base exited!  They penetrate all out of proportion to their "less than traditional" weights.  Good shooting!

[Ridgerunner665]

Thank you sir for that info!

[Ridgerunner665]

What did the permanent cavity look like for the 190 solid at that speed?

[Alasken]

Pretty much like the cavity of other  flat point, non-expanding bullet. That was not the focus of the test, but to compare depth of penetration. A customer from California had called, and complained about 155 X-bullet penetration performance in Lead-free, CA, so I tested the listed bullets for comparison.

[Ridgerunner665]

Got some Blue Dot finally... Testing with the 190 CEB solid to resume shortly.

[gjarcher]

Using a 7" KKM 10mm Match barrel in the G40, I got 1326 fps at 10' through the Pro Chrono with the 190gr CEB Solid, which equates to about 1336 fps ~ 1340 fps mv, depending on which muzzle velocity calculator is used.

Starline Brass (Unfired) sized through RCBS die .988"
CCI 300 Primer
8.9 gr Power Pistol
Taper Crimp .419"
190gr CEB Solid @ 1.254" COAL

At 8.9 gr PP, the CCI primer showed more than the usual flattening, but no case head breech face/ejector marks, or primer piercing/sooting. Fired case head measured .426", max case bulge .428".

After working up a max load with Power Pistol, I read that Power Pistol may have a blinding flash in low light ... not so good for a Bear Defense load. I'll have to give this a try at dark on my local pistol range. If the flash is too much, next try is BE-86 flash suppressed version of Power Pistol.

After reading Alasken's comments on penetration, a bit lower muzzle velocity, which is what I expect with BE-86, might be a good trade-off to get less flash.

[Ridgerunner665]

Loaded 3 at 8.5 grains of Blue Dot just to see where I'm at in the load data, since I'm using the mag primers.

They chrono'd 1,075 fps from the 7 inch barrel and sooted the case mouth a bit, indicating a very mild load and incomplete powder burn.

Gonna try 9 grains next...

[Ridgerunner665]

Blue Dot spiked pretty good at 9.5 grains (1,170 fps)... No smiles, but VERY flat primers... Spooked me.

I stopped there and backed up and retested  Longshot with the new chrono and the 20# spring...

9 grains of Longshot, CCI 300 primer...1,286 fps at 25 feet... That is 1,305 fps at the muzzle and no signs of pressure anywhere. Primers look good, brass looks good, case head measurements are all within spec.

I am gonna try 9.2 grains again, just to double check to see if I still get the slight smiles with the 20 pound spring....

[The_Shadow]

Yes Longshot really get things moving along!  Thanks & Good luck!

[Ridgerunner665]

9.2 grains of Longshot retested...

1,309 fps at the muzzle and put a distinct smile on 2 of the 3 rounds fired.

Question for those of you with more experience using Longshot than me... Considering 9.2 grains as a little too hot, how far would you back down to call it a safe load?

[Ridgerunner665]

[The_Shadow]

8.8 grains of Longshot should be a good load...BTW what is the total length of that Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid bullet?

The solid copper being lighter than lead is usually longer by weight...therefore that length occupies case capacity and that's where the pressure is spiking upwards.