Do you feel in ammo, it is WHEN, not IF, you will be bitten?

[REDLINE]

Well that's some postitive Kimber news.  I wonder if what you've heard included any UW ammo loads.

I see on the Kimber website they use a 16# recoil spring.  I wonder how that works out with UW ammo.  Seems kinda light.  I suppose heavier poundage springs are available for them though, so I suppose it's not an issue then anyway, even though it would require going aftermarket.

One thing I don't get about the Kimber 10mm platforms, the Eclipse Custom II and the Stainless Target II, is the Target model comes with an adjustable rear sight and whatnot, but then they put their better trigger in the Eclipse model and left the Target model with the standard trigger.  Shouldn't the better trigger be in the Target model?  I don't know, just seemed odd to me.  Regardless of which trigger the gun comes with from Kimber, they say trigger pull is 4.0-5.0 lbs.  Is that a standard pull weight on 1911s in general?

Okay, one more question;  Are the Kimber 10mms SA or DA?  Does it really matter?  And why?  Okay, it was more than one more question.

[EdMc]

The Kimber is SA so can be carried 'cocked & locked'........some like this, others don't. I'd think the avg trigger pull would be 4.5-6 lbs on most 1911s. You don't want too light of a trigger on a carry pistol. I could be wrong on that...

The Eclipse has a different finish and grips along with 'night sites'. Very pretty pistols....I looked at one once in 45 ACP. Personally I don't care to pay extra for night sites but that's just my preference.

I found a used Target II within reasonable driving range.......may go after it Friday if I decide I really want another 10mm.    Damn sure don't 'need' another one. LOL Been thinking about a Colt LW Commander in 38 Super...something I'd wanted to try for awhile so still undecided.

[sqlbullet]

I don't see any functional difference between the triggers personally. Of the parts in the firing group on a 1911, the trigger itself has little to do with pull weight, when properly fit and polished.  Far more concerned with sear, disconnector and hammer.

And, lest anyone think my previous comments were in any way questioning the reliability of a Kimber, they are not.  I would gladly take one if the right deal came along.  Very high quality guns.

And yes...4-5 lbs is about standard for a 1911.  My Para 16 is right at 5.0 lbs.  The Para 12 is about 3.5 lbs.  Both snap like glass and have no over-travel at all.  Both have a little take up due to the firing pin block parts and truth be told, the 16-40 can be a little creepy from time to time.

[Intercooler]

My Match is now a 2.5lb pull... on it's own which really feels too light!

[Mike_Fontenot]

My Match is now a 2.5lb pull... on it's own which really feels too light!

My Kimber Eclipse Custom II is currently at a local gunsmith's.  He previously reduced the pull from 4.5 lbs to about 3.5 lbs.  Still seemed heavier than I'd like.  I took it back and asked for about 2 lbs.

I'm accustomed to a very light trigger on my scandium/titanium snubby (when cocked, of course) ... never been measured, but it's extremely light, and a delight to shoot.  So as long as the 2 lb trigger doesn't give me inadvertent doubletaps (or tripletaps ...), I'll be happy.

[Intercooler]

In a 1911 that may be okay due to straight back pull. Henning who makes gun parts for Witness pistols actually shot himself in the leg due to the play left to right in the trigger. In a Witness 2-2.5lbs is teetering on a hair trigger from what I have seen. Tap it wrong and it could go off!

[REDLINE]

My Kimber Eclipse Custom II is currently at a local gunsmith's.  He previously reduced the pull from 4.5 lbs to about 3.5 lbs.  Still seemed heavier than I'd like.  I took it back and asked for about 2 lbs.

Have you run any Underwood Ammo or Buffalo Bore loads through it?...if so, how did it handle them?

Has your's been reliable with all ammo you've run through it, or have you tweaked a little here and a little there for reliability sake?

How do you like the 16# recoil spring?  Is the slide heavy enough that that works okay, or do you feel it could use a step up in spring weight?

Did you aquire yours brand new?  If so, did it end up requiring some break-in time, or did it shoot well from the git-go?

Sorry for so many questions, it's just that we haven't had many Kimber 10mm owners around to ask before.  Seems like you certainly enjoy yours, because if not, I couldn't imagine you'ld care about sticking more money into with trigger jobs and whatnot.

Anyway, really appreciate all your insight with your Kimber.  Thanks for chiming in!

[Mike_Fontenot]

Have you run any Underwood Ammo or Buffalo Bore loads through it?

Yeah, almost all my shooting (after break-in) has been with full-power rounds: BuffaloBore (BB), DoubleTap (DT), and Underwood (UW-GD and UW-XTP).

Has your's been reliable with all ammo you've run through it [...]?

I think the design decisions that Kimber made for the Eclipse Custom II 10mm were EXACTLY right ... it's the ONLY 1911 and caliber that I want.  But their EXECUTION of the assembly process has been disappointing ... I sent it back four times during the first year I had it.  Problems were: premature lockback (fixed with a new/different slidelock), plunger tube got loose (re-staked), failure to manually eject (fixed by shortening the ejector), battering of the link lug at the "knee" from hits by the slidelock pin (pin isn't supposed to touch the lug) (they replaced barrel, but it had same problem), and (finally) failures to manually chamber a round from a full mag.  They failed to fix that last problem, so I took it to a local 1911 gunsmith, who said the primary problem was that the extractor was a 9mm extractor, not a 10mm extractor, and was slightly too short (making it too hard for the rear of the case to slide up under the extractor during chambering).  It seems to be running well now, but I haven't put a lot of rounds through it yet since that fix.

To Kimber's credit, they always DID pay shipping both ways, and they replaced a lot of parts, but they just may not have enough really good gunsmiths to handle their returned guns properly, and to monitor their assembly processes.

Since it IS the only 1911 (actually, the only semiauto) that I want, for me it will be worth the pain of getting it right.

How do you like the 16# recoil spring?  Is the slide heavy enough that that works okay, or do you feel it could use a step up in spring weight?

Stock 10mm spring is 18.5lbs.  I've had several gunsmiths tell me that it needs more than that, but my current gunsmith seemed to think the stock spring is fine.  He DID reduce the mainspring strength, though.  I also asked him to replace the firing-pin stop with a short-radius one, to try to slow the initial slide movement (I've been seeing what looks to me like a distorted primer crater that I think is due to the case being pulled downward before the firing-pin can retract ... but the new firing-pin stop didn't seem to affect that).  I also have asked my gunsmith to slightly shorten the tip of the firing-pin, because it protrudes very slightly past the firewall when stopped by the firing-pin safety ... if I'm going to have that safety (and I DO want that grip-lever-controlled safety ... in fact, it's a requirement for me), I don't want the firing-pin touching the primer AT ALL if the grip lever isn't depressed.

Did you acquire yours brand new?  If so, did it end up requiring some break-in time [...]?

I DID buy it new (September, 2011).  And I DID follow their break-in instructions: about 400 rounds of low-power American Eagle 180gr.  But since then, I've fired almost all full-power rounds, mostly 180gr, but lately some lighter bullets (~150gr) also ... if the feeding reliability is good, I may end up alternating the two bullet weights in my carry mags.

[Intercooler]

I shot my Razorback 10mm yesterday many rounds and bullet types up to 220gr. Zero issues! It's been just a great piece after the initial day of wanting to throw it down the range.

At the range I have shot someone's Eclipse .45ACP and it functioned great. Yesterday though I talked to the shooter next to me who had the real short barrel 1911 style .45ACP. He was also telling me how it was sent back several times and still wasn't right (he had jamming issues yesterday still). They did replace out almost all the pieces including giving him free night sights. Still doesn't make up for a pistol you can't have confidence in.

[REDLINE]

Have you run any Underwood Ammo or Buffalo Bore loads through it?

Yeah, almost all my shooting (after break-in) has been with full-power rounds: BuffaloBore (BB), DoubleTap (DT), and Underwood (UW-GD and UW-XTP).

Has your's been reliable with all ammo you've run through it [...]?

I think the design decisions that Kimber made for the Eclipse Custom II 10mm were EXACTLY right ... it's the ONLY 1911 and caliber that I want.  But their EXECUTION of the assembly process has been disappointing ... I sent it back four times during the first year I had it.  Problems were: premature lockback (fixed with a new/different slidelock), plunger tube got loose (re-staked), failure to manually eject (fixed by shortening the ejector), battering of the link lug at the "knee" from hits by the slidelock pin (pin isn't supposed to touch the lug) (they replaced barrel, but it had same problem), and (finally) failures to manually chamber a round from a full mag.  They failed to fix that last problem, so I took it to a local 1911 gunsmith, who said the primary problem was that the extractor was a 9mm extractor, not a 10mm extractor, and was slightly too short (making it too hard for the rear of the case to slide up under the extractor during chambering).  It seems to be running well now, but I haven't put a lot of rounds through it yet since that fix.

To Kimber's credit, they always DID pay shipping both ways, and they replaced a lot of parts, but they just may not have enough really good gunsmiths to handle their returned guns properly, and to monitor their assembly processes.

Since it IS the only 1911 (actually, the only semiauto) that I want, for me it will be worth the pain of getting it right.

How do you like the 16# recoil spring?  Is the slide heavy enough that that works okay, or do you feel it could use a step up in spring weight?

Stock 10mm spring is 18.5lbs.  I've had several gunsmiths tell me that it needs more than that, but my current gunsmith seemed to think the stock spring is fine.  He DID reduce the mainspring strength, though.  I also asked him to replace the firing-pin stop with a short-radius one, to try to slow the initial slide movement (I've been seeing what looks to me like a distorted primer crater that I think is due to the case being pulled downward before the firing-pin can retract ... but the new firing-pin stop didn't seem to affect that).  I also have asked my gunsmith to slightly shorten the tip of the firing-pin, because it protrudes very slightly past the firewall when stopped by the firing-pin safety ... if I'm going to have that safety (and I DO want that grip-lever-controlled safety ... in fact, it's a requirement for me), I don't want the firing-pin touching the primer AT ALL if the grip lever isn't depressed.

Did you acquire yours brand new?  If so, did it end up requiring some break-in time [...]?

I DID buy it new (September, 2011).  And I DID follow their break-in instructions: about 400 rounds of low-power American Eagle 180gr.  But since then, I've fired almost all full-power rounds, mostly 180gr, but lately some lighter bullets (~150gr) also ... if the feeding reliability is good, I may end up alternating the two bullet weights in my carry mags.

Thanks for taking the time to spell it all out.  Much appreciated.  Overall, about the issues you've had, yeah it sucks to have any issues, but I'm quite impressed they paid shipping both ways.  Also, none of the issues you came across would be deal breakers in my opinion.  Sounds like a solid firearm overall.  Plus, from what I've seen you can't beat the chamber support on the Kimber barrel, and for full power loads that's awesome.

[sqlbullet]

Mike I am glad that your smith worked all that out.

I personally have a different view on the mainspring.  Ned Christensen of Michiguns pretty well proved that a 10mm 1911 should have a flat bottom firing pin stop with a slight break to the radius along with a 25 lb main spring.  This set-up will properly delay unlock and will eat up enough of the 10mm slide momentum to match 45 acp slide velocity/momentum.

That is not to say that your set-up won't serve you very well.  Just saying the frame is most likely being subjected to forces outside it's original design envelope.  That may work great for your platform with it's overbuild forged frame.

[Mike_Fontenot]

[...]
  Ned Christensen of Michiguns pretty well proved that a 10mm 1911 should have a flat bottom firing pin stop with a slight break to the radius along with a 25 lb main spring.  This set-up will properly delay unlock and will eat up enough of the 10mm slide momentum to match 45 acp slide velocity/momentum.

That is not to say that your set-up won't serve you very well.  Just saying the frame is most likely being subjected to forces outside it's original design envelope.  That may work great for your platform with it's overbuild forged frame.

I DO have some concerns about that.  I DID get my gunsmith to install a flat-bottomed firing-pin stop (and he DID put a very small radius on it).  I did it primarily because I was seeing what I thought (and still think) was a deformation in the primer craters caused by the firing pin not being retracted before the slide starts to move back.  But I haven't seen any improvement in the primer crater deformation with the new fps, possibly because that effect may have been counteracted by the weaker mainspring that the smith put in.

I THINK his reason for reducing the mainspring strength MAY have been because it might be necessary to get a light trigger pull ... if so, I'll need the weaker mainspring, because a very light trigger is important to me.

I'm struggling with the thought that I should increase my recoil spring to 20lbs (up from the stock 18.5lb recoil spring in the 10mm Kimber), to compensate for the weaker mainspring, but I don't want to risk getting damage during the return-to-battery ... in that direction, the stronger recoil spring ISN'T offset by the weaker mainspring.  An alternative would be to leave the recoil spring at 18.5 lbs, and start using a Wilson "shock buffer" to prevent recoil damage.  Any advice?

(I actually DID increase my recoil spring to a 20lb variable, during most of the 700 rounds or so that I've fired, and my current smith told be (in response to my direct question) that he wasn't seeing any signs of damage anywhere.  The spring was a "variable" one by accident ... I hadn't noticed that detail when I ordered it ... if I decide to switch to a 20lb from the current 18.5lb spring, it'll be a "conventional" spring.)

[addendum:]  I'm possibly going to use light bullets (~150gr), and that results in less recoil for a given muzzle energy than with heavier bullets.  So it's possible that the recoil forces may not actually be much if any greater than for a .45ACP with 230gr bullets, even though I'm using full-spec 10mm loads, with much higher muzzle energy than .45ACP loads.

[sqlbullet]

Reports of others here that have measured as the increased the mainspring weight is that it's effect on pull weight is pretty negligible.  I havent tested myself.