G20 SF FTF hunting loads

[RJPDVM]

I have been working with this G20 for several years and have been having problems withFTF. This started at about 200 rounds and the simple process of cleaning the magazines and dry lubing them solved the problem for about 100 rounds. Then it started again. Cleaning and lubing made little change. I believe it has worsened over time. The loads in question are the accepted 800X, PP, Longshot, BD and #9 loads at max(180gr @1330; 200gr @1275). I have tried a LW 6.02" barrel, 22# and 24# recoil springs. also tried a recoil damper pad at the head of the RSA. I have replaced the mag springs w/ Wolff 10% heavier tension. Shooting 180 gr @1100-1150 it feeds and fires without a hiccup. Almost all the FTF are caused by the slide riding up on the case ahead of the rim/extractor groove, this leaves the nose of the bullet trying to enter the chamber. A lesser number are with the round partially entering the chamber but the case head has not slid up the bolt face, slight retraction of the slide and it pops right in. I have polished the bolt face and dry lubed it. No good. Ive tried adjusting OAL from 1.250" to 1.270". Full power loads FTF about 1/2 the time. Moderate power loads feed w/o a hitch. Length seems to have little effect. Ejection of fired cases is about 8' for for factory equivalent loads in a 2=3' pile, the full power loads are about 12' and a bit more scattered.
      Rounds in the chamber seem to angle a bit towards the left side of the chamber, I dont now if thats normal or not. Ive checked the slide and frame for any sign of cracks or deformity and nothing seems out of wack. There doesnt seem to be too much difference with the stock RSA or the 22# or the 24# RSAs. It does get to be a chore to work the slide with the 24# spring.. Bullet choice seems to make no difference whatsoever.. My son has the twin to this one and he has no problems at at even with my ammo. Its getting a bit frustrating. What Am I missing?

[my_old_glock]

Is it Gen 3 or Gen 4?

Does your son also have the SF version?

Does your son get jams with your gun, and do you shoot his gun without FTF problems?


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[RJPDVM]

Gen 3, also an SF purchased the same day at the same gun shop, . I dont believe hes ever shot mine.

[dan10mmman]

From the information presented, I am thinking that it is possibly shooter error.  You have tried many different mechanical fixes with no luck.  The fact that it only happens with the heaviest bullets and the hottest loads reinforces the theory. Your son has no problems with the same loads.....I have spent untold amount of time on the range, and in my experience almost all Glock FTF problems are simple cases of weak wristing the Pistol.
The Glock is a light pistol and needs a firm grip and wrist to keep it running correctly.

[Pablo]

From the information presented, I am thinking that it is possibly shooter error.  You have tried many different mechanical fixes with no luck.  The fact that it only happens with the heaviest bullets and the hottest loads reinforces the theory. Your son has no problems with the same loads.....I have spent untold amount of time on the range, and in my experience almost all Glock FTF problems are simple cases of weak wristing the Pistol.
The Glock is a light pistol and needs a firm grip and wrist to keep it running correctly.

Probably this, and low cost to fix.

I will say, often 24# spring is just too much spring. Heck I have issues with 22# springs. 20# is about right with my standard G20 and hot loads, 20# is again too much spring with my G20L, but 19# is perfect with the long barrel and slide and even the hottest loads (over book). I know for a fact this gun will not run with a 22 or 24 pound spring.

[RJPDVM]

Limp wristing should be worse with powderpuff loads, just the opposite here especially with the 24# spring. The last run was  with 180gr at ~1100  or abit less. Function was perfect. Im shooting 2 handed and to get perspective, the grip even with the Hogue sleeve is a tad small for me. The slide seems to ride past the case in the magazine before it can rise up to meet the boltface. Ill get my son  to volunteer to shoot mine, but I have doubts.

[Pablo]

OK so let's focus on this:

the nose of the bullet trying to enter the chamber. A lesser number are with the round partially entering the chamber but the case head has not slid up the bolt face, slight retraction of the slide and it pops right in.

So this exact stuff happens with the stock barrel and aftermarket barrels? The reason I ask: This does sound like what happens with my Glocks and most all size LW barrels until I clean the chambers and open them up just a tiny bit.

[RJPDVM]

There are a few that hang nose in the chamber and the head of the case is stuck halfway up the bolt face- I think that might be the factor here. The vast majority have the nose of the boltface stuck on about the rear 1/4 of the loaded round.  Iam Ill admit reluctant to open the chamber unless theres no recourse. Cases are unbulged regardless of load thusfar.

[4949shooter]

Have your son shoot your gun with the same exact ammo / loads. See what happens.

Then get back to us.

[RJPDVM]

We, I got my son to shoot the G20 and he ran a magazine full without a hitch. The first round I fired followed up with a FTF.  We think my hands are big enough that I may be depressing the mag release under recoil or something similar. He was able to get some  FTf with limp wristing. I guess Im going to have to try some grip variations to see if it will make a difference. Im going to try shooting his gun to see if that makes any difference. At least Im going to get to shoot a lot.

[4949shooter]

Glad you figured it out.  My shooting partner is an experienced, savvy shooter. But he had problems with his G29 at first.

I had to tell him to really concentrate on locking his wrist. Good luck, and I hope you get it worked out.

[Spudmeister]

So I am not the only one.  I have the exact same problem.  It is with a 180gr XTP loaded with 9.5 gr of Longshot out of a Gen 3 G20 with a 5.3" Storm Lake barrel and a 20 lb Wolfe spring.  The load does 1,330 fps in this setup.  At first it ran 100% and over time the problem grew until it was at least once in every mag.  It never gave me a problem in the OEM bbl or the G29 with a KKM bbl but 95% of the shooting has been with the load/barrel above. 

The same setup runs 100% with 200gr WFN cast bullets and 165/180 cast bullets.  It also runs fine with slower 180gr XTP loads.  I have not taken steps to fix the problem since I like the 200gr WFN bullets so much better.  It is doubly strange since if any bullet will feed it is usually an XTP bullet.  My guess is you and I have found the "sour spot" that the gun just does not like.  I think it may have to do with a heavier recoil spring but have not tested that.  10mm Glock's are not normally that sensitive. 

I know I am not much help but it is interesting we ran into the same problem with bullets doing about the same thing.

[RJPDVM]

Well Ive figured it out or so I think. I shot my sons G20 and had 2 out of 15 FTF. My son has stippled the grip frame of his pistol and this results in a smaller rough grip. When you clamp down on this grip the pistol doesnt move too much in your hand. Mine has a Hogue sleeve on the grip.I believe the pistol moves a tad more in muzzle lift with the fire breathing loads and the sleeve allows a small amount of movement. This with the heavy bullets causes the rounds in the magazine to tip slightly downward due to the heavy bullet and muzzle lift. Meanwhile the slide cycles and the magazine spring cant push the case back up fast enough and it catches the case above the rim causing the jam. A stronger magazine spring helped marginally but didnt eliminate the issue. I found if I forced my grip to where muzzle lift was minimal the pistol fed normally. Next step is to remove all the lube and use the softer spring to see if slowing the slide down will improve the function.  This is why the softer loads fed normally, slower slide motion.

[Rojo27]

I also shoot the Gen 3 Glock 20SF; if your reluctant to do the stipple job you might consider Talon Grips.  Pretty inexpensive and come in couple different texture preferences. 
I've used them on several of my polymer pistols and been satisfied (particularly so the Glock) with the extra purchase on the pistol grip. 

[RJPDVM]

Well, scrubbed every trace of lube out of the pistol and hid the tubes from sight.Replaced the stock RSA and ran a mag full. I had one failure and on that one I could see a higher than normal muzzle rise. I believe this was due to a shift in grip. Part of the mag was sent off with one hand w/o problem. So it looks like the muzzle rise is the culprit. I think the chain of events are as follows. When new the gun was stiff and awaiting break in. After a few hundred rounds things were smoothed up to where the function was faster to the point where as it got faster the FTFs got closer together. Cleaning and lubing with quality lubes just made the situation worse. The slide could just move so fast the top round couldnt get back , after muzzle lift/flip, to get picked up by the slide. Time will tell as we shoot abit more, but it seems promising. Meanwhile Ive ordered a set of Talon rough grips.
    Thanks