Unramped Barrels

[REDLINE]

Do any handgun manufacturers offer a conventional unramped barrel in 10mm Auto besides Colt in the Delta Elite?

[sstewart]

I think BarSto for 1911
Just curious, why?


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[sqlbullet]

No other 1911 handguns in 10mm use a non-ramped barrel at this time.  The only one from the past I can think of is Auto-Ordnance, maybe.

[REDLINE]

Just curious, why?

Other than aftermarket like you noted, I didn't think so.  But before making any assumptions I wanted to ask here first.  It was just that I found myself pondering why Colt would go that route with such a high pressure cartridge in the first place ESPECIALLY when no other manufacturer seems to think there's any intelligence behind it.  Anyway, I suspected like sqlbullet answered and was just looking for verification.  Thanks for your input!

I definitely don't get what Colt is thinking, especially after all these years.  I see for 2017 Colt is offering a second choice in the Delta Elite sporting a rail for mounting lights and whatnot.  http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Delta-Elite

[sqlbullet]

My 2¢.  And therefore this is all my opinion.  Opinions are like arse-holes:  We all have one, and they stink.

Loads that are a problem in the barrel in a Delta Elite are over-spec.  That is just it.  Other makers are over-building their guns to account for that fact that 10mm guys are likely to shoot over spec ammo.  Colt doesn't.

Now, I am gonna say a few things here.  As you read them, remember I am speaking in general.  Talking to the averages that will be observed in 10,000 guns shooting 100,000 rounds each, not about what your gun does.  So if you have a contradicting experience, it doesn't change the general statement.

In general, frame ramp guns have more tolerance before reliability is impacted, while ramped barrel guns have more tolerance to high/over pressure rounds.  Colt is erring on the side of reliability.  Everyone else is erring on the side of case support.

[BEEMER!]

I have not seen one of Les Baer's 10 mm's in person so I cannot say with 100% certainty, but I doubt that he is using a ramped barrel.

He advertises his 10mm's as fully supported chambers.  He quit making 10mm's one time because of reliability issues and has just started again.  A friend of mine was talking to Les once and was telling him he was having reliability troubles with a 10mm from another manufacturer.

Les's answer was,  "That's just the way 10mm 1911's act in my opinion."

[14 GT-500]

I just got in from shooting my Colt Delta 50 rds of 11.5 grains of Blue Dot over a 180 gr cast bullet. This load will chrono 1280 fps all day long, and it will do it through both my Kimber and my Colt without any issues what so ever, the only thing that takes a beating is my steel!!

[sqlbullet]

Pretty sure the Les Baer guns in 9mm, 38 super and 40S&W which advertise "Fully supported chamber" are ramped barrels.  I would have guessed he would do the same in 10mm.

[BEEMER!]

Pretty sure the Les Baer guns in 9mm, 38 super and 40S&W which advertise "Fully supported chamber" are ramped barrels.  I would have guessed he would do the same in 10mm.

I called Les Baer Custom as it is a local call for me.

You are correct that the 10 mm's have a ramped barrel.

I asked on the 9mm's and 38 Supers and they are ramped also now.  I have seen Baer pistols in both those calibers with unramped barrels in the past is why I thought the 10 mm is not also.

By the way, the 10mm's are all special order and currently are 8 to 10 months out.

[REDLINE]

I just got in from shooting my Colt Delta 50 rds of 11.5 grains of Blue Dot over a 180 gr cast bullet. This load will chrono 1280 fps all day long, and it will do it through both my Kimber and my Colt without any issues what so ever, the only thing that takes a beating is my steel!!

As much as I'm surprised I'm also happy to hear that.  Not even the slightest case bulge in the Colt compared to the same loads in the Kimber?  Not asking for an exact measurement but how far was the Colt ejecting the brass from you?

[REDLINE]

Loads that are a problem in the barrel in a Delta Elite are over-spec.  That is just it.  Other makers are over-building their guns to account for that fact that 10mm guys are likely to shoot over spec ammo.  Colt doesn't.

I can't say you're not right.  I do wonder.  I would be interested in seeing how the Delta Elite handles the 10mm Proof Cartridges by SAAMI designed to be at a minimum average of 50,500 PSI and a maximum average of 54,000 PSI.  Actually I wouldn't mind seeing it run through Glocks either.  Both Colt and Glock are actual Members of SAAMI as opposed to just Associate Members (e.g.- Savage Arms) or Supporting Members (e.g.- Doubletap Ammunition).

The way I'm mulling it around, if the Delta Elite was designed around the SAAMI 10mm Auto proof loads it shouldn't be showing bulging case pressure signs when it does.  Seems to me that before either Doubletap or Underwood watered down their 10mm loads from what they each originally loaded them to, they each offered loads just for the Delta Elite that were watered down some.

I do realize I don't know what PSI levels any of them were loaded to then or what PSI levels they're loaded to now or what a +50,000 PSI looks like even if it's staring right back at me.  Wish I did.

[sqlbullet]

Yeah...I wonder too.  I am really excited for benchrst to get his set-up working.  And while I get that this isn't a SAAMI lab standard pressure test, it will be very revealing to see the graph of 5 shots of Underwood compared to 5 shots of Silvertips.

However, very damning is this:  38 Super (36,500 PSI SAAMI spec) ran just fine in un-ramped barrels until IPSC shooters started chasing major.  Then some ugly kabooms happened.  In testing of some of those major load, it was reported they ran OVER proof pressure spec.

I checked, and the Delta Elite will pass a proof load test, though it is strongly suggested the brass won't survive two such tests and should be discarded.  I would imagine, then, that proof loads bulge the brass badly enough it is compromised, but does not "let go".  And "not letting go" is the standard for a proof load.

[REDLINE]

Makes me think the difference between a little under 40,000 PSI and a little over 50,000 PSI isn't as big a leap as I've always surmised.

[sqlbullet]

Yeah...I think you are quite right.  I wonder what some of the handloads we see from time to time actually run.

[14 GT-500]

My brass from the Blue Dot reloads fired from my Colt wiil all be in the same area but about 25ft away, were as my Kimber will throw them all over the place but about the same distance. Most of the time I will lose about 10% of my brass, but thats the price you pay for shooting the Big Ten.