New EAA Witness P Compact

[StockIIBoss]

I have the 12 round Witness Comp P and had the same issue with the recoil spring. Nothing else that dropped-in would work, as the aftermarket springs would take a set and left you with little extra length to push the slide closed. So, at times it wouldn't go into battery without bumping the back of the slide. Hence the dual springs, with the exception they don't seem to last before getting chewed up.

So... I tried a Glock 22lb flat spring. Flat springs generally don't take a set, they last longer, and you can get more coils stacked since they're thinner than round springs. Did it work? Nope. I could not, without strange tricks with dental floss and compression techniques, get enough of the flat spring inserted. The problem was the spring pocket. It was too long, and wouldn't allow me to insert the length I needed. I did what any reasonable kitchen table smith would do and chop half of the spring pocket off. Now I could get the extra length spring as well as the guide rod in place. I'm not sure how much I had to cut of the flat spring, but it was trial and error until it worked.

I can actually cut the spring pocket back some more since not much is needed when you compare it to the Glock design. So far the slide's been going into battery as it should and it functions fine. Sometimes the slide seems a bit slow with weaker ammo, but still functions. One day I'll get back into it and see if I can fine tune it further.

Edit: Wanted to mention that it's not the flat spring alone that required cutting the spring pocket. Mounting the spring on the guiderod prevented the spring/guiderod from being inserted into the pocket as a combo. You can see from the pic that the flat spring fits closely around the rod and 'that' blocked the rod from aligning with the exit hole. Nomenclature isn't my strong suit! LOL   

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[Ohio10mm]

I'm still waiting on the return of mine.  Unfortunately the place i bought it from took 2 and a half weeks to get around to sending it in (it left yesterday).  My poor service at my gun shop is another story in itself.     Once I get it back I have quite a few things I'd like to try on it to get the 20 or 18lb Wolff recoil spring to work.  I do have a few questions for you guys though.  Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the full sized 14 round magazines fit my P compact?  I would be up for trying one of the mec-gar mags if it does indeed fit.  Looking at Wolff's website under the full size EAA handgun magazine springs it says "all calibers except 10mm" so what gives?  I would like to try a +5% and a +10% on the 14 round mag and on the 9 round one I got with it once it returns but I plan on giving Wolff a call to ask a few questions.  I did ask if I could have the red follower changed out for a black as well.  I expect the gun will function fine when I get it back but pretty much know I will have to ditch the stock spring if I want it to function for any longer period of time.

[StockIIBoss]

I just trimmed a couple new flat ISMI springs for range testing. The original one I cut was 21 coils, which worked fine, but on occasion, the slide seemed to return into battery too slowly. So I cut a 24 and a 26 coil spring. The wire thickness is the same between all the various weight springs, just the amount of coils change. 26 coils is as long as I could make it and still have the slide lock back. You can really feel the difference between just a couple extra coils!

Once again, the only way you can make this work on any compact Witness is to cut the spring pocket in order to get the guide rod and spring to have enough room for insertion. Here are some pics with the 26 coil spring.

Edit: Here's a link to the spring. Note I have the Henning conefit guide rod, but they'll work on stock guide rods as well.

http://www.ndzperformance.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=ISMI-GLC-20LB

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[StockIIBoss]

So, for a 10mm that you can conceal even better than a Glock 19, and definitely better than a Glock 29, the Witness Compact P 10mm, at just under 1" wide at the slide, and with some simple enough tuning, can be the #1 compact carry piece in 10MM, with 12+1 capacity.

I haven't shot any Underwood or other standard SAAMI spec ammo through it, yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't handle the extra power of those loads. When it comes to 10mm for self defense, this may just be one of the best alternatives. For a dual role as a hunting pistol, I don't think so. For hogs and bear, you'll want to shoot out of a 5-6" barrel with a flat nosed projectile for deep penetration. Perhaps a 200-220 grain hard cast bullet. For personal defense, anything fast will work best, such as a 155 grain Underwood traveling at a Muzzle Velocity of 1500 fps, with a muzzle energy of 774 ft lbs. Awesome. 

[Ohio10mm]

Nice work. I should be getting mine back this week.  I'm not to the point of frustration that I would have the spring pocket shortened up to fit a flat spring(yet).  Had you tried a 14 round mec-gar magazine with a +10% spring?  I'm going to give that a shot with my recoil spring calibration pack.  Probably also get a 2nd mag spring and tinker trimming it to fit the 9 round magazine. I was told by EAA only the mags with the red followers (9rd,12rd) are available for the compact so couldn't try to exchange mine for mec-gar mag.

[Ohio10mm]

Are you using the stock magazine spring in that 12rd?

[StockIIBoss]

Yes, I only have 2 of the stock magazines with the red followers. They seem to have an 11 round capacity, +1 chambered, so a 12 round 10mm pistol. I'm convinced the only fix for this pistol is to do what I did and remove about half the spring pocket and use the ISMI flat wound recoil springs.

I took mine to the range today with various springs to test to see which worked the best. I didn't even have to make a swap, because I started with the 26 coil spring, and never looked back, as it was perfect. I had no failures at all thru 150 rounds of ammo. Federal HP, PMC HP, and S&B FMJ. The PMC HP felt the stoutest, and was also the most accurate, but the S&B was close behind.  The Federal HP was just not as accurate through mine, but not terrible. All were absolutely reliable and something you could trust with your Compact P 10MM with the given mods.

If you want to modify your pistol, contact a gunsmith or machinist to see if they'll cut back the spring pocket. I have access to milling and lathe equipment, but I was impatient and just did mine in my shop with crude tools, grinders, and stones, and bluing. Not as precise, nor pretty, but close enough and worked very well. It's really the only way to make the Compact P work to resolve the recoil spring issue (IMO). Once done, you'll have a reliable 10mm compact shooter. I have every confidence in mine now.

[Ohio10mm]

Had you tried heavier springs in the mags before as well?

[Intercooler]

   It's a weird thing really. The owner of Elite Ammunition did testing with extreme loads when he was making 10mm ammunition. He had it working just fine and I don't think he did a magic dance.

Some videos and you can ask him questions.

[drnls]

Is the spring pocket that you discuss on the slide close to the end? How much was removed?
Thanks, Nelson

[Patriot]

   It's a weird thing really. The owner of Elite Ammunition did testing with extreme loads when he was making 10mm ammunition. He had it working just fine and I don't think he did a magic dance.

Some videos and you can ask him questions.

10mm+p?

You going to email this guy or should I?

[StockIIBoss]

Had you tried heavier springs in the mags before as well?

I haven't changed anything in the mags. Feeding was not an issue on mine, it was the collapsing of the recoil spring (taking a set) when using standard aftermarket recoil springs, such as Wolff. It would fire fine most of the time, but not returning to battery was an issue many times. Not enough force.  Hence the factory use of the dual springs to allow a longer overall spring length. Problem with the dual springs is they get trashed quickly as we've seen, and next thing you know you're trying aftermarket springs and they may not be working very well.

That's my experience, anyway. It's a big step to chop a pistol, as it's pretty much done as a resale item, but I was going after reliability and didn't care much about the lost value (even though it should go way up it works so well!  )

 

[Ohio10mm]

Thanks guys, I'll likely get to give my list of things to try next weekend and put 6 boxes of rounds through it.  Magic dance probably not going on the list though.    

[StockIIBoss]

Is the spring pocket that you discuss on the slide close to the end? How much was removed?
Thanks, Nelson

Yes, at the muzzle end of things. Not sure of the actual name but "spring pocket" sounded ok. It's the doohickey at the front of the slide where the guide rod and spring are inserted.      I removed about 1/2 of it. I just wanted enough clearance to be able to insert the guide rod and flat spring. No biggie, actually, as it still has way more support than a Glock, for example.

I shot the basic 10mm ammo on hand, but didn't bring along any Underwood with me. All I have left in Underwood is the 220 grain hard cast stuff, but save that for the Stock II if I need to take down a bear, Neanderthal,  or hard-skulled Zombies. Yeah, and I'm scared, so there!     My favorite of all time? Underwood 155 grain HP. OMG!

[StockIIBoss]

How much was removed?

I measured the remaining material depth, and it's .405", so still very stout. In comparison, my Glock is .140". Now, this only works for guns with full frame dust shields, as has the Witness P Compact, but I'm sure you already figured that part out.