Steel vs. carbide sizing die

[gmerkt]

I've been wrestling with this matter for decades.  I started out with steel sizing dies, then when carbine hit the market big, I switched.  For the obvious reason, carbide eliminates the need to lube the cases and consequently, the need to clean off the lube.  Never have I been happy with the ridge/indentation that carbide sizing dies often leave in the web of the case.  Not only is it unsightly but might contribute to accuracy issues.  In recent years, I've been converting back to steel sizing dies.  Turns out I mind the lubing less than I mind the deformation of the case. 

Now here was the problem for me.  10mm and .40 S&W mostly came along after carbide dies dug deep into the market.  Consequently, I haven't been able to find a steel sizing die for 10mm.  Lee, RCBS, Lyman, none now make such a thing that I could find.  There probably were some steel sizing dies made back when 10mm first came out, not common, and I haven't been able to find any for sale used online during repeated searches.  Then I started looking at Redding.  They are aware of the issue of the ridge in the web that carbide dies leave behind; they talk about this on a page of their product information.  The carbide ring is designed to resize the mouth of the case for proper bullet tension; the brass at the web is often larger in diameter even on a straight-walled case.  They mention that SAAMI specs allow for .006 tolerance at the web, so carbide dies are still within SAAMI specs when they deform the case with this ridge. 

Redding would like to solve this problem with a die design that incorporates two carbide rings, one at the mouth of the case and one nearer to the web.  I haven't tried a set of these, kinda pricey.  However, in looking into this situation recently, I discovered that they still make a "cheapie" set of dies that includes an old-timey hardened steel (non-carbide) sizing die.  I messaged their company and sure enough, they verified that a steel sizing die comes in their #80520 set.  This is a dedicated 10mm die set.  They also have a set #80253 set that is 10mm/.40 S&W that has the steel sizing die. 

Some of you may already know about  this, some may not care but I thought I'd bring this up to keep someone else from hunting around like I have for a steel sizing die.  You can buy the dies directly from the manufacturer for $2X, or you can get the same set from a big supplier in Missouri for $X.

[The_Shadow]

gmerkt. have you tried "Pass-Through Sizing"?

I have used the RCBS 10mm dies since 1990, and no issues with a ring or ridge.  However since more and more range brass was showing up with bulges, I started seeing chambering issues as the resizing die didn't reach the area due to the radius of the carbide ring and the shell holder.  Trying to improve the situation, I bought the LEE Factory Crimp Die.  However it caused issues of its own leaving the bullets loose because it over squeezed them smaller.

Solution was "Pass-Through Sizing", I took the guts out of the LEE FCD, placed it high up in the press, and used a bullet push pin to shove the brass up into and through the FCD which sized the area to allow it to fit the case gauge and all barrels.

After I "Pass-Through Size"  I do my regular sizing and depriming which reduces the case mouth to hold the bullets straight and tight.  RCBS has a great expander plug to work the case mouth and flare the case for easy bullet starts.

You can learn more here: http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/pass-thru-sizing-using-lee-fcd/

Here you can see the Redding "Pass-Through Sizing" in action; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XcUh9LgqGV0

[my_old_glock]

... 

Now here was the problem for me.  10mm and .40 S&W mostly came along after carbide dies dug deep into the market.  Consequently, I haven't been able to find a steel sizing die for 10mm.  Lee, RCBS, Lyman, none now make such a thing that I could find.  There probably were some steel sizing dies made back when 10mm first came out, not common, and I haven't been able to find any for sale used online during repeated searches.  Then I started looking at Redding.  They are aware of the issue of the ridge in the web that carbide dies leave behind; they talk about this on a page of their product information.  The carbide ring is designed to resize the mouth of the case for proper bullet tension; the brass at the web is often larger in diameter even on a straight-walled case.  They mention that SAAMI specs allow for .006 tolerance at the web, so carbide dies are still within SAAMI specs when they deform the case with this ridge. 

...

Hornady 10mm/40S&W sizing dies are TiN coated steel. I always thought they were TiN coated Carbide, but they are not.

.

[fltbed]

Hornady 10mm/40S&W sizing dies are TiN coated steel. I always thought they were TiN coated Carbide, but they are not.

I always thought they were TiN coated Carbide as well.  That gold coating wore off my sizer 20K-30K rounds ago.

I've rarely notice a ridge in any of my 40 or 10mm brass after it comes out of my Hornady sizer.  I used to notice it a lot in 9mm but I accidentally solved the issue when I started lubing my cases with Hornady One Shot case lube.

Back when One Shot first came out, Brian Enos (of Brian Enos forums) recommend throwing a couple hundred pistol brass in a gallon sized Zip-lok bag, giving it a couple squirts of One Shot, then seal it and tumble and shake the bag up to distribute the case lube around.  It makes loading on a progressive a whole lot easier and, because your not using that much, you don't have to worry about removing the case lube.  Some claim it improves feeding in autoloading pistols but I've never noticed it.  What I did notice was the ridge ring of brass was gone from my 9mm ammo.

I load all my handgun calibers that way.

Jeff

[gmerkt]

The pass-through sizers are designed to accomplish the opposite of what I desire.  The pass-through dies iron out the bulge from chambers that aren't complete supported.  When I get these, I throw them away.  Even after they are resized, you can see an imperfection inside some of them.  At least on range brass that was fired by someone else in their brand.  Even though I'm mostly shooting 10mm Colt 1911, my loads are such that they don't produce this result in the brass.   What I'm talking about with the carbide dies is an area of the case near the web that is sized excessively and diameter at that point is overly reduced.  Depending upon the brand of brass, this effect can be negligible to severe.  Explained another way, if you could put a straight edge lengthwise along the side of a case sized by carbide, you'd see an inward bow. 

This is another subject for a separate post, but as handloaders we must always be aware that not all brass is alike.  I note this particularly since we are now seeing lots of ammo that is made offshore.  I see it with .38 Super and 10mm, for example.  Brass does vary in thickness.  Handloaders are limited to buying dies that are made to certain specs, kind of compromise sizing if you will.  If you try to work brass that is thinner or thicker than the norm, you can encounter problems.  When the big factories assemble their product, their tooling is made to work specifically with their components.  So, again as an example, their brass may be thin, but their dies are sized tight, their .356 bullet fits just fine.  But when a handloader tries to size this case later, the .356 bullet may not fit right. 

Because of the typical fired case loss factor that I experience, I buy quite a bit of range brass.  It comes to me in different makes.  Using .38 Super for example, I've encountered a lot of variation in brass thickness from one brand to another.  I have three sets of dies from different makers to deal with this.  .38 Super is one of the cartridge cases that has manifested some of the worst examples of carbide sizing die distortion, depending upon the brand. 

It's not just some foreign brass that is thinner.  My experience with Remington pistol brass has been that it tends to be thin, from .32 ACP to .45 ACP.  Some of it I reserve strictly for cast bullets which usually are slightly larger than jacketed. 

[cgreth]

I too do the zip-lock bag trick.   Works great.   9mm, 10mm and .45acp makes everything especially the 9mm's, just go thru the dies a lot easier - even though i am running carbide dies.

Any piece of brass that requires tons of effort to push thru the Lee pass thru die - I separate it out and toss it in the trash.  Those are the ones that had a big bulge - that i'm not comfortable reloading.   I and just a few other people shoot 10mm at my range, so I rarely pick up any brass that is not mine.   We all scavenge our brass.