Winchester Auto Comp and other Powders???

[Yondering]

Papa could be a big help in powder ID for #7 and #9.

If you've seen AA7, you've seen AA9, they look almost identical. Also, older AA9 doesn't look like newer AA9. I thought someone here had a picture posted of AA9 recently.

[Yondering]

Speaking of powders, what do y'all think is the best choice light bullets in the 10mm?  I have tried several (AA-7, AA-9, HS-6 and Power Pistol) and the best results so far had 11.0/HS-6/135 Nosler averaging 1348 fps, with an SD of 13.  I think that can be topped, but haven't had a chance to play with the load lately.  Any suggestions?

Blue Dot, AA7, or Power Pistol. Any of those can easily beat that HS6 load by a wide margin. I'd be surprised if you can't get 1500 fps with that bullet with AA7, even with a "slow" barrel.

[The_Shadow]

Yondering, please review this thread especially the 135's and your favorite the 220 HC...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/

[REDLINE]

If you've seen AA7, you've seen AA9...

Exactly.  I can not tell the difference between my No.7 and No.9 powder.  Here are two pics of my No.7 powder (toothpick for size reference):


This pic was taken without using camera flash;


This pic was taken using camera flash;

[Yondering]

Yondering, please review this thread especially the 135's and your favorite the 220 HC...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/

I did read that thread. Not sure what you're wanting me to see though? Good info, regardless, thanks for doing the work.

[Papajohn]

I'll work on getting some AA-7/AA-9 pictures taken and posted with some kind of a grid or scale in the photo for size comparison.  I don't know if I have old or new versions of these powders, but I'm betting the grain size hasn't changed, just the coatings.

I used a lot of 800-X back in my 41 Magnum days, but it's so bloody hard to meter properly I gave up on it.  And I'm not using Blue Dot anymore, I had some serious pressure spike issues with it 15 years ago, and have been wary of it ever since.

[The_Shadow]

PapaJohn, I have some of both the AA#7/AA#9, yes they are very simular in structure and they are hard to distinguish from each other.   AA#7 could have more flatten ball structure kernnels in its mix?

RamShot Enforcer and True Blue powders, looks a lot like AA#9 with the sherical round ball shape powder.

[Papajohn]

I took a few photos of #7 and #9 today but it's hard to get the light right with a cheapo digital camera.  I'll post them from work tonight if I get the chance.  With the naked eye it's hard to tell any real difference, they're both like fine sand.  Now if you could get some SEM photos, THAT would be enlightening. 

[The_Shadow]

SEM photos...well my eyes aren't what they used to be , but visual inspection and careful load work ups will determine if what we suspect is being used, would show if we reach a particular velocity close the the factory load, while observing for pressure signs.  I'm not ready to run the load ladder testing for the 357 magnum stuff just yet.

Lord only knows what they are stuffing the Ted Nugent 10mm ammo with that contains the flattened ball & yellow dusty stuff...although the charge weights vs. velocity puts it in the AA#7 performance range.  I have used the Underwood load data with the 800X for my own 10mm ammo, which works in my guns as setup.

The 9mm pull downs, I need to obtain some Win AutoComp powder to run those test to see how it would measure up.  Not many places local to me sell or stock smokeless powders any more.

Gold Dot bullets are also demanding some permium prices, if you can even find them in stock...

[Yondering]

The 9mm pull downs, I need to obtain some Win AutoComp powder to run those test to see how it would measure up. 

If you do this, please post the results. I intend to buy some AutoComp as well, for the same reason, but it will be at least a few weeks.

[Papajohn]

Photos, as promised.  This stuff is so fine that it's going to be really tough to get good close-ups of the grains.

Both powders together


AA-7


AA-9

[REDLINE]

There isn't a difference I can discern (not that I haven't mentioned that earlier).

What I would really like to know is the difference in recipe between the two.

[EdMc]

Is it just the light in the photos or is AA7 slightly greenish in color compared to the gray/black of the AA9?

[The_Shadow]

People have mentioned that the powders have undergone some changes in recent times, they mentioned more of a flattened ball structure as compared to the sherical ball of the older powder structure.

This is AA#9 from my supply 2008 date on the jug...

[sqlbullet]

That is what my #9 looks like too.  Bought it about 3 years ago.