Underwood's Lineup 135/155/165/180/220 pull-down

[Intercooler]

I still don't know more than them 

[The_Shadow]

Today...I updated the post for the Underwood 220 grain HC WFN.  I just did the teardown and cleaning of my 1006, the test gun for all the ammo from the 10mm pull downs.  The gun and barrel were inspected and cleaned...No damage was found, however the gun was a little dirty and leading from the last shot of the test was the Underwood 220 grain HC WFN was smeared in the first 2 + inches of the barrel.  I think the bullet may have smeared as it tried to grab the rifling, maybe not enough lube or the type of lube could be causes.  Plenty leading to remove.   There was more leading with this one bullet that I see from shooting many rounds of my own cast bullets!

[Intercooler]

I saw the same leading (actually slivers) in my own 1006. Also back when I did the first test I even asked about it. My purpose was just testing so really no need for me to shoot these in any quantity unless we get some really jumbo people walking around here 

[REDLINE]

Are there cleaning agents made specifically for removing lead from a bore, or do any of the regular bore cleaners work fine?

[The_Shadow]

There are a few products to remove lead.  (WARNING some chemicals can remover finishes on your guns, nickel plating and blueing, ETC.)  Be very careful what that stuff gets on even your hands!

I use Hopes #9 bore solvent on a copper brush wrapped with a cleaning patch to wet the bore.  I let it soak for a little while, then scrub with the wetted patch still wrapped around the proper bore brush, the patch picks up and holds the debris and lead as it loosens up.  Has worked well for my needs.

For heavy and stuburn fouling a Copper Chore Boy can be your friend to scrub the bore clean.   

[Yondering]

For heavy and stuburn fouling a Copper Chore Boy can be your friend to scrub the bore clean.   

Part of a chore boy pad on a bore brush is really the only lead removing tool you need. No solvents or anything else comes close to being as efficient. It doesn't matter if the leading is light or heavy, a few strokes with this should leave the bore nice and shiny.

[harrygunner]

I noticed similar effects when I was testing the Underwood 220gr HC.

The bullets seemed softer and a bit larger in diameter than DT hard cast. I figured that's why they stabilized in a Glock.

But, my 1911 did struggle with them when it came to chambering. I'd only have a need for hard cast when I'm in the woods and for that I carry the Glock. So, I didn't concern myself with that.

[krafcheck]

for all you that fired all of them (hollow point) which was the one you were more accurate with or your favorite if accuaracy was the same?

i just got in all the hollow points except the 200 gr.  (out of stock)  so i need to do another order when in stock. but i bought all the different grains to test them for which one i am best shooting. after i find out which one is my favorite i will order a bunch in that grain.  135-200 gr. with underwood power levels i dont think it matters which one i carry as i think they they will all be adequate.  if i shoot the same with two or more different grains i guess i will carry the the heavier one.

[REDLINE]

That particular 165 grain bullet could actually be the ZERO brand bullet which is very simular to the XTP styles in that weight...that is the key is the weight and diameter...

I think it would be good to change the wording it the first post to reflect this, as there is and never has been a 165gr Hornady XTP.

I say this because I was referencing the data after not seeing it for a while, and even though I know better, others referencing it in the future may be confounded.

[pasky2112]

You all do great work on rev. engineering and re-engineering these loads!  Thank you.
With all your experience, how comfortable do you guys feel extrapolating data from a 165gr GD to a 165gr Golden Saber?  I just got a deal on a small box of 500 of them (GS's) and want to load them in both 10mm/.40S&W for SD loads.  In my experience, I've seen some nice terminal perf of the GS's (decent penetration, nasty petals, etc.; very talon-like).  I'd like to know your thoughts as well.

Thanks again!

[RMM]

You all do great work on rev. engineering and re-engineering these loads!  Thank you.
With all your experience, how comfortable do you guys feel extrapolating data from a 165gr GD to a 165gr Golden Saber?  I just got a deal on a small box of 500 of them (GS's) and want to load them in both 10mm/.40S&W for SD loads.  In my experience, I've seen some nice terminal perf of the GS's (decent penetration, nasty petals, etc.; very talon-like).  I'd like to know your thoughts as well.

Thanks again!

You really need to know the difference in OAL between the bullets, amount of bearing surface, surface hardness, etc.  As long as they are similar I would feel comfortable backing off ~10% then working back up to these levels, but I would not feel comfortable substituting components without backing off a bit.

[preventec47]

What I find a bit unusual about this thread is that the very 1st post by SHADOW where
it is revealed that the 135gr Underwood ammo placed a smile on the case and blew
out the primer using a SW 1006 gun and no one or Shadow commented on any of
the rest of the cartridges in the box or any of the other 135 gr ammo sold by Underwood.

Perhaps at this late date it may be irrelevant if Underwood had switched to LONGSHOT
from IMR 800 powder for this 135 gr load.  Has anyone else ever shot any of Underwoods older 135 gr 10mm ammo?  Was it equally troublesome ?

If what Shadow pulled and fired was 11,8gr under the 135 gr bullet with the bad
results, what does Shadow consider to be the max load of IMR 800X ?

I'd like to know if the same bullet and powder was shot with incrementally
smaller amounts of powder to see if the trouble signs slowly disappeared.

I am committed to the XTP 155gr as my bullet and all my efforts focus there
but I will never forget the youtube videos of hi velocity 10mm 135gr hitting
hams and roasts effects.   The only reason I hang with the slightly heavier bullet
is for barrier penetration but I think I saw videos where the blistering fast 135s
were the only bullets to penetrate some steel plate so I have my doubts.  But nah
it is the FBI  body penetration parameters that draw me to the 155 gr and not the
135gr.

Shadows Quote-
"Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 135gr Nosler JHP
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1600 fps
Muzzle Energy: 767 ft. lbs
Pictures: Before/After disassembly:
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.4880"/Dia. 0.400": Nosler 135gr. JHP
actual weight 135.2 grains
C.O.A.L.: 1.2520"
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4215" Crimp Diameter 0.4210" Length 0.9870"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR800X 11.8 grains
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 135 Gr. Nosler JHP 1738 fps : Diameter 0.4325" @ the light "Smile"  primer GONE popped out!, case didn't eject."

[The_Shadow]

Preventec47, I am at a lost as to why the primer actually popped out, other than the gun started out clean and freshly lubricated with that round.  Its possible that there was less frictional drag, being cleaned and lubed and the increased slide velocity from the impulse of the round.  Although I was using the 22 lb spring, things may have been different, if I would have used the 24 Lb spring.  But I am not biased when reporting what I find as tested.  I only had the one round to test at that time (supplied by Intercooler) but I wouldn't hesitate to load some and test again.

I know some have worked way higher than this loading and up to the Original IMR800X listed data...135gr @ 1800 fps.