10mm KaBoom have a good read

larryh1108 · January 05 2017 07:45:55 PM MST

I am not a Glock guy. I don't own any by my choice. It's just about ergos because they make a fine gun.
I don't get the Glock remarks. It seems, to me, that the Glock did exactly what it was supposed to do to protect the shooter from harm. IMO, I am extremely impressed at how well the Glock handled the failure. The failure was all about the ammo. I may need to rethink owning a Glock because of what I saw here.

Pablo · January 05 2017 07:59:21 PM MST

People think this is Glock's fault???

Reading. It's fundamental. Wow.

Intercooler · January 06 2017 03:19:54 AM MST

We 90% of the time see this happen in the Glock platform. This is a Glock again and that's what was said.

Geeman · January 06 2017 04:14:26 AM MST

Take my word for it. Different gun platforms have different maximum pressure limits. If a gun is known for "glock smiles" that is one step toward a kaboom. Everyone wants to defend their pistol, but everyone should go into this with their eyes wide open.

I will say that the Tanfoglio platform is strong. It shows over pressure by loosing the primer. Glocks show it by shearing brass in the form of smiles, and that's not a better or more safe way to handle pressure. I load 10mm to be safe in the Glock. That way its safe in everything I shoot. If I loaded for what the Witness could handle, I'd suffer another kaboom if it ended up in the Glock.

They are different. Just keep that in mind. Load for your weapon and you should be fine.

Greg

Pablo · January 06 2017 04:20:46 AM MST

Quote from: Intercooler on January 06 2017 03:19:54 AM MST
We 90% of the time see this happen in the Glock platform. This is a Glock again and that's what was said.

Not sure about 90% - but OK, makes some level of sense because the so many of the 10's in use are Glock. Frankly other than myself, I've never in all my years of shooting seen anyone else at the range shooting a 10mm that wasn't a Glock. This case had nothing to do with Glock, and in particular the Glock chamber since it was a LW barrel, AND the ammo manufacturer claimed responsibility, saying this is the fault of Glock is ridiculous.

4949shooter · January 06 2017 05:37:22 AM MST

So a guy puts a an aftermarket barrel in a Glock pistol, blows it up with admittedly flawed ammo from the manufacturer, and you guys want to blame Glock again.

I am calling BULLSHIT on this one.

Intercooler · January 06 2017 06:12:48 AM MST

It's not blaming. Stating the facts of the obvious that what is pictured, written about and had this kaboom was the Glock platform again. I just take note of the platform regardless of what the configuration. I wouldn't be the one to say one way or the other if this barrel (thought to be an upgrade) had any negative effects versus the stock barrel. Different shooters even handle the magazines differently. Maybe he taps stuff to the back or does something weird in his chambering that helps these situations. That was a pretty vague answer from Underwood about what they saw as well.

sqlbullet · January 06 2017 07:58:50 AM MST

Lets state it another way.

There are 5 times as many Glock 10mm's on gun ranges today as all other 10mm brands combined. And we see Kabooms in Glock at 2X the rate of any other gun in 10mm. That means the Glock is 2.5 time LESS likely to see a Kaboom than another brand.

Now, I pulled those numbers outta the air, mainly because I don't have time to go track down the real market share. But I think we can all agree that the Glock 20 is the most prolific 10mm platform, by a wide margin. And it is the most prolific handgun platform by a wide margin. Based on a poll linked here Glock was 3X more popular than the next closest gun, and was as popular as all others in the poll combined (Glock 363 vs All Others 369).

If I am out testing ammo, am I gonna grab my $2000 Wilson, my $3000 Nighhawk/Kase Reeder/Ed Brown, or my $550 Glock that I can replace in an hour at any LGS?

If I hear a Kaboom occured, it is gonna be in a Glock, not because of smiles, or other issues, but because Glocks eat far and away more ammo than any other gun brand, especially in layman testing.

14 GT-500 · January 06 2017 08:17:56 AM MST

I never said that It was a Glock issue, I said that this is one of the reasons why I like an all steel gun when I am shooting hot 10mm. If you want to shoot hot 10s in a Glock thats fine, but I like a little more steel in my guns wheather its a Colt a Kimber, Dan Wesson ,Sig 220 etc etc hopefully thats ok with some of the folks here.

The_Shadow · January 06 2017 08:42:39 AM MST

SQLbullet, I have to agree about those who got into the 10mm found Glock as an entry level piece out numbers other makes.

There are so many things that can learned from this situation.
This is not the first time a UW loading caused a KaBoom, 10mm was not the only cartridge either, one of the 357Sig pull-downs was a result of study and documentation aftera Kaboom.

People seeking high performance ammo like UW, have to realize their equipment needs to be able to handle the potential. In this incident there was an anomaly that is suspected...bullet being slightly smaller in diameter. This was documented in a pull-downs also. The bullet design with its cross pointed design could easily snag or catch during cycling event, given the projectile's orientation as it tries to chamber. It is likely the bullet hit the top of the tighter LWD barrel chamber as it entered, thus causing a setback of the smaller diameter bullet. (would this have happened in the factory barrel as well? Maybe) As the projectile was moved deeper into the casing, this allowed itself to chamber. If this happened in any firearm regardless of caliber it too would likely suffer the same fate. It's easy to point fingers at things, this could have easily happened in your firearm or my firearm.

My advice a question to each and everyone, is do you check your ammo to see if bullets are loose? seated at different depths? damaged cases?

Another thing I'll add is recoil assembly systems. I have seen some of the captured systems be so loose they will drop out with there own weight. To me this is a disaster waiting to happen. There isn't enough spring pressure applied to hold the slide in battery. When the cartridge is fired and the casing slams against the breech as the projectile pushes the barrel forward, it can yield less case support if it overcomes the spring pressure before pressure is subsided enough and the bullet leaves the barrel.

Lettusbee67 · January 06 2017 09:42:16 AM MST

First Post for me. Been lurking here for a long time, and appreciate the breadth of knowledge.
Thought this was interesting, as I have a Glock 20 and am now going to check the ammo stash to see if I have any of this ammo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dapVWOqMNE&t=13s

sqlbullet · January 06 2017 09:56:09 AM MST

Lettusbee67, sorry to steal your first topic, but it was the same incident as this thread.

Lettusbee67 · January 06 2017 10:00:04 AM MST

No problem at all. I should have searched more dilligently.

Thank you

my_old_glock · January 06 2017 11:04:40 AM MST

Quote from: Geeman on January 06 2017 04:14:26 AM MST
Take my word for it. Different gun platforms have different maximum pressure limits. If a gun is known for "glock smiles" that is one step toward a kaboom. Everyone wants to defend their pistol, but everyone should go into this with their eyes wide open.

All guns should be able to handle the maximum pressure limits set be either/both SAAMI or/and CIP for the specific cartridge. The Glock 20 was designed specifically for the 10mm: The G21 45ACP was an after though. The 1911 platform was the opposite.

It the brass has a smile, it is over pressure. That is the ammo makers fault, and not the gun makers fault.

Quote from: Geeman on January 06 2017 04:14:26 AM MST
I will say that the Tanfoglio platform is strong. It shows over pressure by loosing the primer. Glocks show it by shearing brass in the form of smiles, and that's not a better or more safe way to handle pressure. I load 10mm to be safe in the Glock. That way its safe in everything I shoot. If I loaded for what the Witness could handle, I'd suffer another kaboom if it ended up in the Glock.

They are different. Just keep that in mind. Load for your weapon and you should be fine.

Greg

It might be better to have the brass shear and vent gasses before the pressure gets too high.

.

sqlbullet · January 06 2017 12:08:27 PM MST

Good words Shadow, Geeman and my_old_glock.

Glocks are built handle SAAMI standard ammo. My Glock 20 and 29 are both stock and run everything I throw at them just fine.

My Wtiness guns are capable of handling much more pressure, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea to run a steady diet of such ammo.

Underwood fills a place in the market. I appreciate their product and their work. But I take their statements that their ammo is within SAAMI spec with a grain of salt. When you mass produce ammo that close to the line, you are going to have a "flyer" now and then.