Glock 20 Hard Cast Ammo Test - video

[MrRedbull616]

 Took out the G20 red dot with 6" LWD Barrel - shot underwood 220, buffalo bore 220, doubletap 200 and doubletap 230.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qdRkT7058

[Intercooler]

Cool. I don't think I put any through the Hunter when I shot HC. Guess I need to do that one!

[The_Shadow]

Nice video comparison...lube = smoke 

[sqlbullet]

Good video.

If you make your own bullets and lube, you can find formulations that are quite low smoke.  Felix Lube is usually low smoke in my experience.  It is important to note that bullet bases must be fastidiously cleaned of lube if you want to reduce smoke.

Of course in commercial loads this is not something we can control.  And in general commercial loaders are after low price and durability in automated machines, which usually means a high paraffin content lube which is cheap, hard and effective.  But, paraffin can contribute to smokiness a good bit.

[REDLINE]

Did you happen to look over the spent brass to see if there were any pressure signs from any of the rounds?

[harrygunner]

Thanks for the video.

Looks like Double Tap is reacting to competition by getting their speeds up closer to where they need to be.

[MrRedbull616]

I didn't see any pressure signs.   


although the new lone wolf barrels I just bought (ported versions of g20 and G29) have a feed ramp cut like a glock barrel.

IMO it's a bad combo -  at least with the glock barrel the entire chamber is bigger and allows pressure to flow in all directions...with the LWD the entire chamber is super tight except one spot at the feed ramp. So all the pressure flows to that one spot.

I tried some weaker loads like HPR 180gr - even with that I got a glock smile.   Whoever is doing the feed ramps at LWD should be fired.  Not just dangerous - completely stupid on their part.

NO I am not a LWD hater _ I have probably 25 of their barrels or more.

[REDLINE]

I didn't see any pressure signs.

Good to hear.   

Whoever is doing the feed ramps at LWD should be fired.  Not just dangerous - completely stupid on their part.

I agree.

[MrRedbull616]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia1VkP5LSnA

I made this video for a friend of mine but the issue is important enough that I'm posting it here.


like any unsupported barrel it's fine until you get that one round where it's just a touch too hot or the brass on that rd is just a little weak etc etc etc.  THEN KABOOM.

again the problem with LWD doing barrels like this is the entire chamber is TIGHT except ONE SPOT which has ZERO support in the most important place.  This way of doing it is far worse then a glock barrel IN MY OPINION>>>> BECAUSE the pressure is spread out over a greater area with a glock barrel vs the LWD....which is tight everywhere and then NOTHING at the most important post so ALLLLLL the pressure flows to that one spot!!!

[The_Shadow]

Here you show several makes barrels which clearly shows different amounts of chamber support at their feed ramps.

I also have some concerns about brass in particular the web area...This is exactly why people need to know and understand their gun, it's barrel/chamber support, and inspect their brass as being shot from the gun as setup with recoil system.  Bottom line brass is the weakest link, if the forces are acting on it to produce smiles, swollen case head distortions then your setup has reached it's limitations for a particular loading and is teatering on the verge of case blowout.

The longer barrels which lack feed ramp support are subjected to the pressures for a longer duration (no matter how slight) to continue to act on the brass should it start to flow in the unsupported areas.  Once the area has started to flow it doesn't require the same amount of force to lead to the total blowout.

Another concern is barrel/slide lock-up to maintain lock-up during the duration.  If the brass starts to smile or even flow, this swelling could act to extract the brass by pushing itself out of the chamber further or start to un-lock the barrel/slide too soon.  Of course this could only be seen with super high speed photography and observed during slowmotion playback.  Different barrels can exibit different lockup/timing as opposed to another being used in the setup.

This is why I say place and line up the spent brass back into the chamber to see if the headspacing has been exceeded due to the swollen area.  If the headspacing is incorrect the expanding brass was subjected to pressures while unlocking occured...

I am by no means an expert in these matters, and this is a summary of what I have read, seen, or discussed with people who actually experienced KB's and even catostrophic failures.  I use this information based on my 33+ years of handloading (handloading 10mm since early 1990) experience to form an educated guess as to what is being experienced as more and more people report their findings, testing various ammo in this potent cartridge. 

[REDLINE]

again the problem with LWD doing barrels like this is the entire chamber is TIGHT except ONE SPOT which has ZERO support in the most important place.

Compared to a generally large overall chamber as on a stock Glock 20 or 29 barrel, I look at aftermarket barrels having 2 unsupported spots, including your new Lone Wolf.

The 2 spots in my mind are;  1)  the dished 6 o'clock position where the feed ramp leads up to the brass, and 2)  extra belling or lack thereof of the chamber mouth beyond the 6 o'clock position streching into the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions and sometimes beyond.

KKM isn't generally too bad directly in the 6 o'clock position.  But what I don't like about the KKM is that the chamber mouth is belled an extra amount from the 6 o'clock postion all the way up to the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions.

I prefer the Storm Lake design as it only leaves a very small amount of supported chamber at 6 o'clock without any belling further beyond that point.

Lone Wolf used to be similar to Storm Lake as mentioned above, but is now worse than KKM all the way around the chamber mouth IMO.  But one other thing that has generally caused me to also shy from the older Lone Wolf barrels is it seems they offer the tightest chamber overall which I feel is overdoing it.  And now I think MrRedbull616 is also correct in that now it seems they've kept an overall super tight chamber, BUT also opened up the chamber entrance well beyond what is necessary, to the extent I see it being no more useful than a stock Glock barrel.

Barsto, the couple I've seen, seem to be pretty close to Storm Lake, maybe with a slightly tighter chamber overall (but I'm not sure).

And EFK Firedragon, well, who the heck knows, as it seems no one has interest in giving them a chance anyway, and therefore we never hear about them.

[MrRedbull616]

my storm lakes are so tight everywhere they don't function 100% - to many FTF's.  I just don't know who to use anymore.

Furthermore every storm lake I have it appears the the bottom lugs are not cut right...well that is my guess as to the cause of what I am seeing which is:  the guide rod sticks out more than normal and the slide seems about .03-.06" slightly out of battery.

I just don't see how that can be good.  I already sent the barrels back once because they wouldn't feed and they missed half the stuff I wanted them to look at. 

When I ordered I ordered 3 G20 barrels.  I got 2 that were right but wouldn't feed at all.  I got one that was marked like I ordered "g20 10mm" but breach was cut for a G21 slide.  Their QC just blows. 

I'm not a hater of them either I have 9 or 10 of their barrels.  But none of them fit right.   April's solution to everything is to send it in on your dime and WAIT.

KKM - don't have a lot of experience with them.  I have a G29 barrel now and want to get a G20 barrel.

Barsto - I have 2 I have to try out

[REDLINE]

With Storm Lake I expect FTFs arise because they don't open up the chamber entrance beyond the 6 o'clock position like most of the rest including the new Lone Wolf design.  Then there are others who say they have no issue with their Storm Lake barrels.  I personally haven't been able to get out and test my new Storm Lake barrel yet.  Seems like give and take between max chamber support offered and reliable feeding, and then only for some.  I wonder sometimes if it's just specific loads causing issues.  Or maybe sometimes worn out recoil and mag springs.  I don't know and think it might be different issues for different folks, especially when some have no issues at all.

One thing I can say for sure is that my Storm Lake barrel does NOT have the issue of yours where you say on yours it causes your guide rod to stick out more than normal along with the slide seeming to be .03-.06" out of battery.  My Storm Lake is a relatively new production piece direct from the factory.