10mm gel tests

[Intercooler]

True. I thought maybe with this one given it only opens to a certain size more speed would drive it deeper.


I agree... let's see what some of the others give 

[Raggedyman]

That's a good point. It looked like the petals are sort of "braced" against the shank so that might keep it from opening up farther. It also looked so perfect it could have been an advertising photo. It could probably go quite a bit faster before it sheds any weight or otherwise fails.

[Intercooler]

  I will pick up a box and then save it until a later date for this testing. 

[Intercooler]

$17.99/box special now exclusive at Cabela's

http://www.slickguns.com/product/hornady-critical-duty-10-mm-175-gr-flcd-20-rnds-1799

[Retired Squid]

I've never thought much of jello testing for real world, too many variables in living tissue and none in jello.

My 140gr Barnes TAC XPD penetrated 4.5" of seasoned White Oak....but it tumbled in the wood, the hollow cavity filled with wood and bullet only bulged slightly. My 38 Super penetrated 4" with 124gr Barnes TAC XPD it tumbled in the wood, the hollow cavity filled with wood and bullet only bulged slightly. The PD round loaded with Zero 124gr JHP running standard 1930 1250 fps velocity penetrated 3.5" and mushroomed to 3/4" in process.

The wood was 3x6 post about 3/8" apart standing on end, the 38 Super JHP round left a big 3/4" dent about 1/8" deep and was unrecovered. It made me wonder what a 135 gr Nosler would do, but forgot to bring any of those 1600fps barn burners.

The 10mm was my Kimber TLE/RL I have for home defense and 38 Super is my Colt LWC that I carry daily. 

[Intercooler]

    I like it because it's hard to find any live volunteers    You also can see some things in that media you can't in soap, wood, wax, wet pack, etc...

[Retired Squid]

    I like it because it's hard to find any live volunteers    You also can see some things in that media you can't in soap, wood, wax, wet pack, etc...

I'll stick with testing on wildlife, junk cars/trucks, and wood blocks. 

I will say that the 10mm & 38Super both knocked the 3x6x18 white oak (they had a third 1' block on top to keep proper separation) a kilter on the table and the 9mm almost didn't knock them down. The 10mm hit middle of lower half of block and kicked all blocks up into air, the 38 Super just got the one block air born after being hit almost dead center. 

[Raggedyman]

[Raggedyman]

I've never been attacked by cars or lumber.


While my testing is not performed in a laboratory and I don't conduct enough test shots for a statistically relevant result, I strive to achieve the best accuracy that can be expected from a layman in these conditions. I do not use "jello". I use calibrated 10% gelatin. It is FAR more dense than jello. The experts consider it to be the ONLY medium that can produce results useful for predicting the terminal behavior of bullets. What that means is that although my own tests are not as dependable as professional lab tests, they are far more relevant than "testing" conducted with chunks of wood, buckets of mud, wet pack, etc. Generally speaking, my results are also probably more relevant than tests conducted in Simtest or Cleargel, though those results are usually consistent with my own. It's even fair to say that my tests are more accurate than some other laymen gelatin tests because I post my calibration results, whereas a lot of guys don't.

But don't take my word for it; I'm just some dude on teh interwebz. This is what the experts have to say about the relevance of properly conducted ballistic gelatin tests:

"The IWBA published some of Gene Wolberg's material from his study of San Diego PD officer involved
shootings that compared bullet performance in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin with the autopsy
results using the same ammunition. When I last spoke with Mr. Wolberg in May of 2000, he had
collected data on nearly 150 OIS incidents which showed the majority of the 9mm 147 gr bullets
fired by officers had penetrated 13 to 15 inches and expanded between 0.60 to 0.62 inches in both
human tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin. Several other agencies with strong, scientifically based
ammunition terminal performance testing programs have conducted similar reviews of their shooting
incidents with much the same results--there is an extremely strong correlation between properly
conducted and interpreted 10% ordnance gelatin laboratory studies and the physiological effects of
projectiles in actual shooting incidents." - Dr. Roberts



"The test of the wound profiles validity is how accurately they portray the projectile-tissue
interaction observed in shots that penetrate the human body.  Since most shots in the human body
traverse various tissues, we would expect the wound profiles to vary somewhat, depending on the
tissues traversed.  However, the only radical departure has been found to occur when the
projectile strikes bone: this predictably deforms the bullet more than soft tissue, reducing its
overall penetration depth, and sometimes altering the angle of the projectile's course. Shots
traversing only soft tissues in humans have shown damage patterns of remarkably close
approximation to the wound profiles.

The bullet penetration depth comparison, as well as the similarity in bullet deformation and yaw
patterns, between human soft tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin have proven to be consistent and
reliable.  Every time there appeared to be an inconsistency a good reason was found and when the
exact circumstances were matched, the results matched.  The cases reported here comprise but a
small fraction of the documented comparisons which have established 10% ordnance gelatin as a
valid tissue simulant." - Dr. Fackler

[Retired Squid]

I've never been attacked by cars or lumber.

That's a good one, I enjoyed it as I assume it was in jest. I have been attacked by them and I have had the splinters and busted knuckles to prove it youngster.  

While my testing is not performed in a laboratory and I don't conduct enough test shots for a statistically relevant result, I strive to achieve the best accuracy that can be expected from a layman in these conditions. I do not use "jello". I use calibrated 10% gelatin. It is FAR more dense than jello. The experts consider it to be the ONLY medium that can produce results useful for predicting the terminal behavior of bullets. What that means is that although my own tests are not as dependable as professional lab tests, they are far more relevant than "testing" conducted with chunks of wood, buckets of mud, wet pack, etc. Generally speaking, my results are also probably more relevant than tests conducted in Simtest or Cleargel, though those results are usually consistent with my own. It's even fair to say that my tests are more accurate than some other laymen gelatin tests because I post my calibration results, whereas a lot of guys don't.

But don't take my word for it; I'm just some dude on teh interwebz. This is what the experts have to say about the relevance of properly conducted ballistic gelatin tests:

I don't need to take your word about it as I've known about proper testing procedure firearm for over 40 plus years and that includes "jello" ballistic testing. I was using humor there incase it went over your head or somehow missed it by reading to fast or incompletely. Maybe I should have used the smilies, I often failed to use them so as to be sure people know humor without it having to slap them in the face. I will try to be more careful and use them in the future. 

"The IWBA published some of Gene Wolberg's material from his study of San Diego PD officer involved
shootings that compared bullet performance in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin with the autopsy
results using the same ammunition. When I last spoke with Mr. Wolberg in May of 2000, he had
collected data on nearly 150 OIS incidents which showed the majority of the 9mm 147 gr bullets
fired by officers had penetrated 13 to 15 inches and expanded between 0.60 to 0.62 inches in both
human tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin. Several other agencies with strong, scientifically based
ammunition terminal performance testing programs have conducted similar reviews of their shooting
incidents with much the same results--there is an extremely strong correlation between properly
conducted and interpreted 10% ordnance gelatin laboratory studies and the physiological effects of
projectiles in actual shooting incidents." - Dr. Roberts



"The test of the wound profiles validity is how accurately they portray the projectile-tissue
interaction observed in shots that penetrate the human body.  Since most shots in the human body
traverse various tissues, we would expect the wound profiles to vary somewhat, depending on the
tissues traversed.  However, the only radical departure has been found to occur when the
projectile strikes bone: this predictably deforms the bullet more than soft tissue, reducing its
overall penetration depth, and sometimes altering the angle of the projectile's course. Shots
traversing only soft tissues in humans have shown damage patterns of remarkably close
approximation to the wound profiles.

The bullet penetration depth comparison, as well as the similarity in bullet deformation and yaw
patterns, between human soft tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin have proven to be consistent and
reliable.  Every time there appeared to be an inconsistency a good reason was found and when the
exact circumstances were matched, the results matched.  The cases reported here comprise but a
small fraction of the documented comparisons which have established 10% ordnance gelatin as a
valid tissue simulant." - Dr. Fackler

But it was I assure all in jest so relax and go with the flow. The reason we were shooting blocks and cars later was to show a friend how little protection a door of a car or the wood frame and drywall house he lives in would offer him and we had a lot more fun doing it then chronograph checking loads or looking at long deep holes in 10% ordnance gelation.  Unless that's what flips your skirt up.

[Raggedyman]

10mm C.O.P. 155 gr all copper hollow point fired from 4.5" barrel EAA Witness through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 602.8 fps, 3.0"

Impact velocity: 1,008 fps
Penetration: 10.2"
Retained weight: 153.9 gr
Max expansion: 0.776"
Min expansion: 0.455"

[Raggedyman]

10mm Littlestone 155 gr Barnes XPB fired from 4.5" EAA Witness through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 585.6 fps, 3.7"

Impact velocity: 1,128 fps
Penetration: 12.8"
Retained weight: 155.3 gr
Max expansion: 0.751"
Min expansion: 0.470"

[The_Shadow]

Thanks for the video, I liked the way the denim lands on the chrono... LOL 

The COP's IC sent were reworked using BB loading @ 1475 fps, I was amazed by the loading BB are using in their offering... 

[Retired Squid]

Did you actually chrono those or are you going by their numbers? Wonder what powder if that's true they use? I'm not out in my shop at the moment but I tried two powders and could not get enough powder in case and still get a bullet seated enough to fit the magazine to get close to that number. I used PP for one I think, but winter weather set in and best I remember I was in 1100fps range at best load. A 30% plus increase over my load seems unrealistic to me, but I'm no expert. 

[Intercooler]

I tested the BB version plus Shadow's version. Both were 1400 FPS + and Raggedyman has them both for testing.

They both might shock us some!