10mm gel tests

[Intercooler]

[Intercooler]

His gel test gave similar results to Raggedyman's. His velocity average was 1123 FPS where I averaged 1104 FPS.

[Raggedyman]

Awesome. Thanks for posting. Nice to see some other folks doing testing in 10mm. I'm also interested in seeing how the Clear Ballistics media compares to gelatin with higher velocity rounds. It seems very consistent with gelatin at service pistol velocities but I've seen a couple tests with some discrepancy compared to gelatin with higher velocities. That could easily be a statistical anomaly. It will be interesting to see as the data set gets bigger.

[Intercooler]

We even see some variance when they do 5 shot tests. Not all bullets loaded are perfect it seems.

[Raggedyman]

There are a lot of internal and external variables that are bound to cause some variation. I'll see if I can find examples but I think I remember seeing a clear gel test done with rifle ammo or high velocity pistol ammo that produced results dramatically different from a gelatin test. I have no idea what it was, though.

[pacapcop]

I think there are two important bullets in that 155 10mm load that might prove to work in terms of penetration. That would be the factory Hornandy 155 in the high 1200's and Georgia Arms 155 Speer JHP at 1375. I do have the 155 G/A's. So we have the Underwood at 1500 not hitting the mark and low velocity as well.

[Raggedyman]

Found one. tnoutdoors9's (http://youtu.be/OkUm7iegNbM) test of Underwood 10mm 135 gr Nosler in clear gel produced 10.5" of penetration. My own test (http://youtu.be/fIya7tdvERI) of the same load produced 7.9". Velocities were similar. Neither of us conducted enough tests to determine whether those results are normal statistical variation but 2 1/2" is a pretty big variation. I noted a couple others over the last couple years, too. When there was a difference between clear gel and gelatin, it was always with very high velocity pistol ammo or rifle ammo. The results from clear gel seems to be consistent with gelatin with lower velocity pistol ammo, including more moderate 10mm. That 135 gr load was 1,560 fps.

MrGunsngear (http://youtu.be/yF89dysghUs) got 25" of penetration from Hornady 7.62x39mm 123 gr SST and I got 16.7" from the same bullet at the same velocity. (http://youtu.be/_Jn6GiiVrcM)


I'm not trying to be critical for the sake of being critical, either. It is certainly possible that the variation is normal. I have the utmost respect for tnoutdoors9 and Mrgunsngear and I appreciate anybody who invests their time and money in ballistic testing, especially cartridges and loads that don't see a lot of professional testint. Maybe someone else can find some tests at or above 1,500 fps that can confirm or refute my suspicion.

[Raggedyman]

10mm Double Tap 165 gr Golden Saber video link

10mm Double Tap 165 gr Golden Saber fired from 4.5" barrel EAA Witness into calibrated gelatin. I forgot the denim on this test. Sorry. Penetration with denim is typically slightly greater than without. The Golden Saber is not known for having trouble expanding after passing through heavy clothing and the additional velocity of the 10mm further encourages expansion.

BB calibration: 598.5 fps, 3.0"

Impact velocity: 1,298 fps
Penetration: 13.7"
Retained weight: 139.9 gr
Max expansion: 0.783"
Min Expansion: 0.517"

One extra shot over the chronograph measured 1,286 fps.

As reflected in the retained weight, there was substantial fragmentation and although the jacket and core were not detached from each other, the only thing holding them together was the gelatin itself. The jacket pulled away from the core as I removed them from the gelatin. The two fragments seen in the pic were recovered immediately next to the bullet so they were included in the retained weight figure.

I added another shot that I haven't done on previous tests. It shows the split wound track, side by side, with the bullet in place at the end. This exaggerates the appearance of the wound but gives a better view of where the fragments were lost along the track. Let me know what you think so I know whether to include that shot in future videos.

10mm 195 gr Mihec (shallow pin) over 8.0 gr 800X video link

10mm 195 gr Mihec (shallow pin) over 8.0 gr 800X fired from 4.5" barrel EAA Witness into calibrated gelatin. I omitted the denim because this is intended as a woods load.

BB calibration: 598.5 fps, 3.0"

Impact velocity: 1,166 fps
Penetration: 14.1"
Retained weight: 196.8 gr
Max expansion: 0.698"
Min expansion: 0.657"

Additional velocity numbers are:

1,141 fps
1,119 fps
1,148 fps

[The_Shadow]

Raggedyman...look at that load data for the MiHec...  80 Grains!

I know you meant 8.0 grains, the program may not have recognized the period format.

[Raggedyman]

I use Tardis brass.   

[mag360]

I have to say im not a fan of omitting denim as that is explicitly described for handgun ballistic testing.  They only omit the denim for rifle tests.  I think the denim helps with a couple situations, first it allows an equal playing field for evaluation, two I think it replicates fur or skin that may delay opening or expansion.  These are my opinions.

Thanks for the tests that 195gr mihec is a beast!

[Raggedyman]

Actually, a proper battery of tests includes bare gel, heavy clothing (IWBA and/or FBI standard), sheet metal, auto glass, plywood, and wallboard.

The omission of the denim in the Golden Saber test was an  and denim would have likely resulted in a bit more penetration. It's unlikely it would have made any difference in the Mihec test.

[Oldsoldier 69]

I use GA Arms 180 FMJ for range ammo in my new Kimber and an old G20 (Gen 1?). I am seeking advice to stock up on SD ammo for both pistols. Recommendations??

[The_Shadow]

Welcome to the forum Old Soldier, Even the first G-20's were 2nd generation Glocks, they lacked chamber support around the feed ramp and up the sides a little, but fed anything and everything...

[Intercooler]

Hornady 175gr Cabela's Exclusive